2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Tellenbach]

May I suggest sending ballots by passenger pigeon; it'd probably go faster.

 

[rav3n]

Perhaps but that is another pair of shoes. This is no longer can it be done but how it can be done.
Plus in my country this is done mainly by volunteers and Herring mentioned them as well. Plus we have NGO volunteers that observe, so make sure that the problems are minimal.

There are plenty of people who can't afford a new pair of shoes in the U.S. Good luck getting almost four times the number of volunteers necessary in Germany, never mind your tiny country.

Then google. Last years it had a little bit over 500 million people and now with Brexit it lost something like 65 million I believe. Therefore if we count only the adults that can vote there has to be a bigger base of voters than in US. Especially since generational structure is similar.

I forgot to bold the rest of the statement about using paper ballots only.

 

[Red Herring]

Estonia (1.3 million inhabitants) allowed e-voting. Everybody else used traditional methods from what I could find.

 

[Merced]

I haven't seen anything yet indicating that he cheated. What looks to be happening, with the percentage so far is roughly anomalous to the electoral college/popular vote difference. Now, those are really dumb rules, but those are the rules in place, so calling that cheating is a stretch. I get similarly annoyed (as some of my family members do) when people claim Trump "wasn't elected" because he lost the popular vote. No, under the rules we have, he was elected. It sucks, but the truth is that democratic values has always been something we've only cared about when it's compatible with plutocracy. The whole point of institutions like the Electoral College and the Senate is because the Founding Fathers feared "the mob" and the "tyranny of majority", particularly the ones from the region of the country that was modeled after the limited concept of "liberty" from the ancient world where most of the people were slaves, like Virginia. Hell, it's in their writings.

I'd need more evidence of how the process involved manipulation of the process by Buttieg supporters for me to feel comfortable claiming that he cheated, rather than the process in place just being kind of shitty.

Here's how I see it. And forgive me because I do not get to the point in a way that is legible.

In 2016, the DNC sabotaged the Bernie campaign. The Overton Window shifted right.

Fast forward four years of American brand fascism (and yes, I agree with the analysis of it being fascism), Donald Trump makes several illusions to the fact that he finds Bernie's policies as a threat to him. And it makes sense too. Anti-establishment is what Bernie is going for and that was a majority of Trump's base. Now that Trump is the establishment, anti-establishment is fundamentally anti-Trump.

Mayor Pete puts a significant amount of money into Shadow. (Side tangent: Who the fuck names their political software company 'Shadow' with a straight face???) After 'technical difficulties', the app malfunctions to the point of delaying the results over 24 hours. Before the results are in, Mayor Pete declares himself winner and refuses to give comment on why. Keep in mind that the Bernie campaign made an app preparing for this well calculated shit show and it shows that Bernie is in a comfortable lead.

Before all of this is happening, multiple public figures like Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, and Elizabeth Warren (whose drama I'm not going to bother sourcing), all establishment heartthrobs mind you, start to smear Sanders in an attempt to slow down his momentum.

The DNC changes the debate rules to allow Bloomberg to participate. Bernie, already being the only truly left wing candidate with an emphasis on defeating billionaires, is the only candidate this is a relative threat to due to his self imposed spending limitations.

See, it's not just Mayor Cheat I have beef with. It's the entire Democratic Party. "How can we trust the Democrats with our healthcare if they can't hold a caucus?" is exactly the question we should be asking. The answer is: we can't. That's why we need an anti-establishment candidate to tear down this shit and start anew. The systems we have in place right now are hot fucking garbage, as you said though. I still think there are too many coincidences to think he is off the hook.

This was all a roundabout way of saying is

"While I think it is fair to call Pete a cheat,
it is ultimately a combination of feats
from celebrities to senate seats
to undermine a candidate that beats
fascism."

Bars.

Also that video of the "random" Pete supporter in charge of the coin toss makes me want to get a fucking guillotine.

 

[Virtual ghost]

There are plenty of people who can't afford a new pair of shoes in the U.S. Good luck getting almost four times the number of volunteers necessary in Germany, never mind your tiny country.

Well, now we are getting to my story that USA doesn't know how to play as a team.


Plus this number of volunteers is counted per capita, how big is your country is basically irrelevant. However if you really want to pull me for this: As I was explaining in other threads a few weeks ago minimum wage is my country is barely 500$. The typical average Joe retirement is about 300$. Therefore in this you really have no argument.
As I said: I believe that here no one continent wide has given up on paper ballot, but here I can perhaps be proven wrong. Since the topic doesn't interest me much.
However that surely doesn't seem to be too mainstream approach to elections here, neither it changes my argument that this probably isn't the good idea for plenty of reasons (what was my starting argument) .




I really don't want to me mean, but your stubbornness just make me look like that.

 

[rav3n]

Well, now we are getting to my story that USA doesn't know how to play as a team.


Plus this number of volunteers is counted per capita, how big is your country is basically irrelevant. However if you really want to pull me for this: As I was explaining in other threads a few weeks ago minimum wage is my country is barely 500$. The typical average Joe retirement is about 300$. Therefore in this you really have no argument.
As I said: I believe that here no one continent wide has given up on paper ballot, but here I can perhaps be proven wrong. Since the topic doesn't interest me much.
However that surely doesn't seem to be too mainstream approach to elections here, neither it changes my argument that this probably isn't the good idea for plenty of reasons (what was my starting argument) .




I really don't want to me mean, but your stubbornness just make me look like that.

You can't compare income like that from country to country. Look to the cost of living.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Here's how I see it. And forgive me because I do not get to the point in a way that is legible.

In 2016, the DNC sabotaged the Bernie campaign. The Overton Window shifted right.

Fast forward four years of American brand fascism (and yes, I agree with the analysis of it being fascism), Donald Trump makes several illusions to the fact that he finds Bernie's policies as a threat to him. And it makes sense too. Anti-establishment is what Bernie is going for and that was a majority of Trump's base. Now that Trump is the establishment, anti-establishment is fundamentally anti-Trump.

Mayor Pete puts a significant amount of money into Shadow. (Side tangent: Who the fuck names their political software company 'Shadow' with a straight face???) After 'technical difficulties', the app malfunctions to the point of delaying the results over 24 hours. Before the results are in, Mayor Pete declares himself winner and refuses to give comment on why. Keep in mind that the Bernie campaign made an app preparing for this well calculated shit show and it shows that Bernie is in a comfortable lead.

Before all of this is happening, multiple public figures like Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, and Elizabeth Warren (whose drama I'm not going to bother sourcing), all establishment heartthrobs mind you, start to smear Sanders in an attempt to slow down his momentum.

The DNC changes the debate rules to allow Bloomberg to participate. Bernie, already being the only truly left wing candidate with an emphasis on defeating billionaires, is the only candidate this is a relative threat to due to his self imposed spending limitations.

See, it's not just Mayor Cheat I have beef with. It's the entire Democratic Party. "How can we trust the Democrats with our healthcare if they can't hold a caucus?" is exactly the question we should be asking. The answer is: we can't. That's why we need an anti-establishment candidate to tear down this shit and start anew. The systems we have in place right now are hot fucking garbage, as you said though. I still think there are too many coincidences to think he is off the hook.

This was all a roundabout way of saying is

"While I think it is fair to call Pete a cheat,
it is ultimately a combination of feats
from celebrities to senate seats
to undermine a candidate that beats
fascism."

Bars.

I don't dispute any of that except for I don't quite consider Warren an establishment candidate, even if I don't take her side in that.

For me to consider it cheating, it would have to alter the delegate counts in some way. I'm not convinced that has happened yet.

 

[Jaguar]

So we have more conspiracy theorists returning to shit all over the politics sub forum. It never ends.

 

[Red Herring]

As Virtual Ghost said, absolute size is irrelevant. It's about the ratio of polling stations and volunteers per voter. Even third world countries manage to find volunteers. Is America so desperately poor the state can't find a handful of people per district who are willing or able to dedicate a day to this?

Let's look at specific numbers for Germany. Germany has 82 million inhabitants, obviously not all voters. 61.688.485 people were elegible to vote during te last federal election. Voter turnout was 76.2% The last federal elections were the most expensive ever at 92 million Euros compared to 77 million four years ealier. This increase in costs was mainly down to two factors: an increase in postage fees for all the mailing (which Virtal Ghost said was basically unnecessary as people could simpy pick up their ballots at the polling station, it's just that we send them beforehand so that you have enough time to familiarize yourself with them) and an increase in the minor compensation the volunteers receive for their service (25 Euros instead of the previous 21 Euros per day for the simple helpers and 35 Euros per day for the polling station leaders). 650.000 volunteers were needed. They worked at 90.000 polling stations in 299 districts across the country.

There were no technical hickups. At a little over one Euro per inhabitant.


Cost of living:
a liter of milk: 1 Euro
a loaf of bread 2 Euros
innercity bus ticket: 2,50 Euros
coffe to go: 1,50 Euros

 

[Virtual ghost]

You can't compare income like that from country to country. Look to the cost of living.

Absolutely true, that and many social programs is how we live fairly decently with that kind of money. However all of that is still so low amount of money that my statement stands (few hundred dollars a month). However what we both know is that the key factor in all this is culture. We believe in what we have and exactly this provides relevant certainty. Plus we have enough of national collective spirit to organize this every few years ... and that is it.

 

[Maou]

Here's how I see it. And forgive me because I do not get to the point in a way that is legible.

In 2016, the DNC sabotaged the Bernie campaign. The Overton Window shifted right.

Fast forward four years of American brand fascism (and yes, I agree with the analysis of it being fascism), Donald Trump makes several illusions to the fact that he finds Bernie's policies as a threat to him. And it makes sense too. Anti-establishment is what Bernie is going for and that was a majority of Trump's base. Now that Trump is the establishment, anti-establishment is fundamentally anti-Trump.

Mayor Pete puts a significant amount of money into Shadow. (Side tangent: Who the fuck names their political software company 'Shadow' with a straight face???) After 'technical difficulties', the app malfunctions to the point of delaying the results over 24 hours. Before the results are in, Mayor Pete declares himself winner and refuses to give comment on why. Keep in mind that the Bernie campaign made an app preparing for this well calculated shit show and it shows that Bernie is in a comfortable lead.

Before all of this is happening, multiple public figures like Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, and Elizabeth Warren (whose drama I'm not going to bother sourcing), all establishment heartthrobs mind you, start to smear Sanders in an attempt to slow down his momentum.

The DNC changes the debate rules to allow Bloomberg to participate. Bernie, already being the only truly left wing candidate with an emphasis on defeating billionaires, is the only candidate this is a relative threat to due to his self imposed spending limitations.

See, it's not just Mayor Cheat I have beef with. It's the entire Democratic Party. "How can we trust the Democrats with our healthcare if they can't hold a caucus?" is exactly the question we should be asking. The answer is: we can't. That's why we need an anti-establishment candidate to tear down this shit and start anew. The systems we have in place right now are hot fucking garbage, as you said though. I still think there are too many coincidences to think he is off the hook.

This was all a roundabout way of saying is

"While I think it is fair to call Pete a cheat,
it is ultimately a combination of feats
from celebrities to senate seats
to undermine a candidate that beats
fascism."

Bars.

Also that video of the "random" Pete supporter in charge of the coin toss makes me want to get a fucking guillotine.

Yeah, even I think they did this shit intentionally to ruin Sanders. They know Biden cannot win, and no one likes Warren. So they are forcing Buttplug and MiniDon on the Democratic base. The Estsblishment Dems hate Sanders, because he is the chaos candidate. They want another Puppet, not a Socialist Trump.

 

[Jaguar]

So they are forcing Buttplug and MiniDon on the Democratic base. The Estsblishment Dems hate Sanders, because he is the chaos candidate. They want another Puppet, not a Socialist Trump.

Buttplug? Oh, I get it. Homophobia.

 

[Red Herring]

I get the appeal of reform, but what is so attractive about chaos on both the left and the right? How unhappy must a country be with itself to want to undo its intitutions, storm the bastille and behead the king?

 

[Tellenbach]

Is there something special about Iowa? Why would both the RNC/DNC agree to let some little state set the stage for the election season? Texas should take the lead.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Is there something special about Iowa? Why would both the RNC/DNC agree to let some little state set the stage for the election season? Texas should take the lead.

I think they should all vote on the same day.

People in Iowa (or Illinois, for that matter). should not be granted a "more important" voice in primaries than in every other state.

 

[Jaguar]

Is there something special about Iowa? Why would both the RNC/DNC agree to let some little state set the stage for the election season? Texas should take the lead.

I agree with the former, but why the latter?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I agree with the former, but why the latter?

I've read things suggesting that it had something do with what happened in 1968 right here in Chicago.

 

[Jaguar]

I've read things suggesting that it had something do with what happened in 1968 right here in Chicago.

What does Tellen suggesting starting with Texas rather than Iowa have to do with 1968 Chicago?

 

[Tellenbach]

I agree with the former, but why the latter?

No offense to Iowans, but Texas is a much more important state, due to its size and all the oil and natural gas it produces.

 

[Jaguar]

No offense to Iowans, but Texas is a much more important state, due to its size and all the oil and natural gas it produces.

Not to mention, all the diehard KKK members. What a sparkling choice.