SubtleFighter
New member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2011
- Messages
- 253
- MBTI Type
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 6w5
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/so
I know it's annoying but have you just tried jumping into the problem and seeing how it goes?
It seems like that’s the general consensus. I guess I just gotta hold my nose and jump in the deep end of the pool (once my voice comes back, that is).
I didn't know that some people take the lack of response as a cue that I'm pushing them away. Hmm.
For me, it really depends on the context for whether I think someone is pushing me away. I really don’t expect or want a play-by-play of someone’s day or week or whatever when I ask things like that; what I’m really saying is, “Is there anything important or new in your life that you want to share or talk about?â€. Even if the person gives a “not much†kind of answer, I can tell if it’s a comfortable conversational style for them. That’s really why I mentioned that in my first post, about how she reacts to things like that, only to show that this isn’t her typical conversational style , and that because we have different styles, it’s hard to tell when it would be okay from her end for me to bring up this stuff, not because I think she’s pushing me away
Yes, this is very true for me too. If I know someone has something touchy going on in their lives but they don’t quickly bring it up in conversation, then I’ll assume that they don’t want to talk about it. Thereafter, I’ll actually collude with them in avoiding the subject, to save them any embarrassment that might arise from an accidental mention of the subject. I may become so militant about avoiding the subject that I may miss obvious cues when they do want to bring up the subject. After a conversation I may think back later and say, “OMG, I think he was trying to bring up that subject finally! Now I have to come right out and ask him if he wants to talk about it!â€
Interesting . . .
Anyway, if you want to bring up a touchy subject in conversation, I think it would be acceptable to do the following with just about anyone, including an INFP:
When there’s a brief pause in the conversation, look a bit awkward and say, “I have a personal issue going on in my life, and I would like to run it past you just to get a second opinion. No pressure: It concerns only me and it’s not a real big deal. It’s just that I like to run things past a neutral observer who knows me. Just sometime when you have a few minutes.â€
I think that sort of direct request would appeal to an INFP. It gets past the tap-dancing about whether or not you actually want to talk about it, and it suggests that the two of you can discuss something personal without obligation or drama. The key is to make the request very casual and keep expectations low: purge the request of any hint of pressure or personal investment required on the INFP’s part, and an INFP will become as curious/nosy as anyone else. Then let the INFP’s desire to play therapist do the rest.
What if the situation is a big deal, though? And I really want someone’s advice for it? It just doesn’t seem truthful for me to appear casual if it’s not. Would that scare an INFP off?
I don't do small talk. The thing is, I used to mistake 'how are you doing?' for genuine interest of the other person and start talking away to find them be annoyed that I 'took advantage' of their politeness to 'dump' all over them. Sometimes I still do that, but i really try to contain it. I have a kneejerk reaction to answer all questions honestly so when I'm actually not feeling too well it's hard to lie. These I'll make it vague and move on. Also, Fe is a tool to me. That means that if I'm still on a Fe-level with you, you're not in my real comfort circle ( I don't mind people who I know are Fe-users doing it to me though it does sometimes make me roll my eyes and chuckle).
This is like my friend too. She can often fake Fe okay, but once she’s close to you at all, it stops. Small talk is something that she really doesn’t like either. It may sound weird, but I’m actually weirded out by most people saying “how are you?†too—when they don’t really mean it, that is. Because I know it’s just a greeting, like saying “Hello,†but I still hate to lie and say, “Fine.†But yet my Fe demands that I don’t say, “Well, actually, I’m feeling irritated right now about . . .†It’s a no-win situation. But when people mean it, it’s a different story.
I like talking about feelings. Scratch that, I *love* it. But I know most people don't. So when they're doing the polite thing and unless it's part of a group discussion or they mention something like 'I need your opinion on this', I try not to go there (I fail, often though). I won't ask about your day, coz when you talk to me, I can feel your mood. I already *know* the most important thing. And, as Skylights said, you might not wanna talk about it. I'm likely to check, just to make sure though and go: 'hey, you feeling alright today, you seem a bit..off '
I’ve read somewhere in this forum that Fi-users will sometimes feel that the person is in a bad/painful mood, and they’ll deliberately not ask about it because they feel like they can’t handle taking on that person’s painful emotions right now. Does that seem right to you? (Any Fi-user who wants to comment on this is welcome to!)
If your friend doesn't do that, it would appear that a) she might be less focused on discussing stuff like this in general and/or b) you guys don't have a 'talking about feelings' bond. You share different common grounds, so she's not really ehm..using her skills to check on you emotionally, as you never indicated a need for that/that was never part of your friendship 'contract' (Fi-users tend to make individually tailored 'contracts' in their relationship while Fe-users seem to use the 'standard contract' provided by society). However, that contract is fluid and can be changed over time easy peasy, at least with me. It's kinda like a bond that grows, and when a person indicates that they trust me, and show me that, I'll reciprocate, mirrorring that trust, and deepening the bond, opening our friendship up to more indept convo about who we are and all the vulnerable dirty little secrets that entails. I have people though that don't know me at all and somehow seem to need someone to talk to, sometimes come to me and ask for my opinion on a situation they're in, and i'm more than happy to help if I can. That's more of a professional counsellor-'patient?' type of bond or that's how I feel it, since no bond was established before yet. My point is, talking about feelings doesn't really usually require bonding (at least for me), but if you are friends and it's not naturally part of your friendship, you might have to nudge her sensitivity to this stuff, and just be, as said before go:
'Hey, can I talk to you about something for a sec? I could use your perspective on this matter as I'm not sure what to do '
It's simple, to the point, and will make her fully focused on you. Keep in mind that if you ask this though, she'll go into problemsolving mode. If you want to actually just have her listen without saying anything, without solving anything, phrase it differently:
' Hey, can I rant at you about something for a bit, I have this thing that's just annoying the shit out of me right now.'
=> indicates listen only, and no jumping in with helpful solutions, just empathizing hard
I’m not sure if it’s A or B. It could be A, since I do think she’s less focused on feelings than you seem to be by your description. B is also possible. And if so, I want to change the contract! I’m someone who loves sharing feelings with people I can trust; it’s just that I’ve been not sharing because I’ve been waiting for the social cues. So she may have taken this as me not being someone who likes to share things like that too often or not wanting to share it with her.
Also, I love your two recommendations and the reaction that each one is likely to provoke, thanks! It's helpful
I'm not sure if this is typical of XNFPs, but it could be that... how to explain... xnfps often get accused of talking too much about themselves, someone asks "how are you", all they want to hear is "fine", but the xnfp tells them a whole long convoluted story and rants or whatever. It's the honest answer of how they really feel, but the other person wasn't ready for it and doesn't understand. xNFPs are rather sensitive and as soon as anyone accuses them of selfishness or narcissism or they even think that they could be misunderstood like that they overcompensate and then get overly defensive about personal questions.
Or this could just be me back in high school.
your high-school self