First of all, thanks to the Fi types for your comments and explanations. Truth be told, this isn’t something that hits home with me. I wouldn’t have started this thread if it did, because I’m rubbish at defending a position for which I’m in the throes of fighting off hurt feelings. I have Fe aux (theoretically), but I don’t feel personally feel threatened by the prospect of Fe being perceived as ‘fake’. At all. I
wish I had more tolerance for superficial behavior. It’s just that I know a couple of really awesome Fe doms who’d get- as Trinity put-
butthurt if they were members of this forum
and I can imagine how much it bothers the Fe dom members here. I guess my point here is, I’m trying to pay attention to my tone, I’m not trying to sound… antagonistic. Cuz I’m not taking this stuff personally. I just want to understand the Fe bashing because I can see it being hurtful.
Subjectively on Fi -I feel an exceptional strong need to be honest-even if painful to another. I feel an exceptional aversion to lies or emotional manipulation. The thought of using another person's emotions to make them alter their course of action makes me feel ill. To plan such a thing-it makes me feel disgusted with myself. Fi is REAL. It is honest, open, genunie, even if that means displays of emo-puking insanity.
Thus to effectively teach them a god damned thing, you have to be REAL. Any sense that you are not REAL, or are planning and plotting...and they assume Te and respond assertively, defensivly, and even aggressively.
Thus to truly impact their judgment on an issue, you must be REAL. Whatever issue it is you feel strongly on....it has to REAL...and it has to force them to hurt just a little via their own internal Fi mirror, small though it may be.
Subjectively on Fe-it feels really weird to me...it feels controlling
Objectively on Fe-It is just as effective a system of social interaction as the above mentioned Fi-Te paradigm. It uses control of others based upon an Fe mechanism of emotional influence consciously rather than subconsciously...It isnt bad or good....just effective at maintaining a social balance, a mechanisms for maintaining social equilibrium. There is nothing Wrong with Fe or Fi...they are just meant to be used in different arenas on different audiences...
Yeah, Orobas, it’s just- again- there’s a tie between Fi types needing “genuine†interaction and Fe types not needing it. Ti makes for a pretty good bullshit-o-meter I think. I don’t have much stomach for anyone imposing anything on me that isn’t REAL either. And the Fe doms I choose to know are just as loathe to manipulation and lies as I am.
I’m not even trying to argue that there isn’t something ‘shallow’ about Fe- compared to Fi. I’m just arguing that emphasizing it as ‘shallow’ (this is not at you, Orobas, it’s in general) is very one dimensional and biased (it’s a perspective that downplays quantity because it discounts breadth), and that ‘shallow’ is by no means synonymous with ‘fake’ (‘fake’ downplays quality). It’s exactly the same thing as arguing that Fi is narrow/ego-centric (discounts depth) and narcissistic (downplays quality). And narcissists don’t empathize any more than ‘fake’ people do.
That argument easily runs both ways. Fe types are more inclined to recognize this on their own, since it’s more important to them to be fair- which is
the only reason why you won’t find just as many “Fe is naturally more empathetic because Fi is too inclined to narcissism†arguments as you will “Fi is more empathetic because Fe is about being fake†floating around.
If Fe looks controlling, think about what Fi getting Te to do its bidding looks like. I think both
extremes throw equal amounts of shit in the pool. And Fe types don’t like getting lumped together with the unfortunate ‘fake’ and manipulative extreme any more than (I presume) Fi types particularly want to be lumped together and branded as people who systematically club other people over the head with their own opinions like narcissistic cavemen until the other side concedes from sheer exhaustion.
I also think you have to reconsider what you perceive to be belittling. I know it comes off as such, but I think it's just merely frustration and venting that happens at that point and *their attempt* to understand something that is clearly foreign to them and...well, getting it wrong
These are pulled from a relatively recent thread on Fe/Fi (I’m not going to attach usernames because I’m not trying to point fingers, I just want to pull examples):
I think Fe is more likely to think "what is expected of me to feel?"
Fi would help out because of intense empathy...or would walk away because of having a bad day and feeling too overwhelmed to handle helping other people.
Fe would help out because they would recognize helping as being the "right" thing to do, and I think they would be far more compelled to help, even if their mood wasn't good, whereas the Fi user might decide not to help based upon mood.
And in the empathy/sympathy thread: people are arguing that Fi uses more empathy and Fe uses sympathy, while
simultaneously commenting on how empathy is about
genuinely caring and sympathy is about ‘pretending’ to care
because you can’t directly relate. Really, no amount of adding “but Fi has it’s downsides too, and I love Fe types†is going to undo how Fe is flat out belittled as fake, even borderline sycophantic.
Now, is it really a matter of Fi/Te not perceiving that^ as belittling? If just as many people jumped into those threads arguing that Fi is too narcissistic to care about other people as much as Fe- would that not seem like belittling? Because that might be one of the biggest reasons this is a problem in the first place.
While Fi users may have their own ways of dealing with people and many Fi users have a great desire to please others, the need for authenticity and being true to yourself has a greater emphasis, therefore it's more discussed.
So the connection is that the need to feel authentic naturally leads someone to actually being more true to him/herself (in the way of being more honest about feelings, hence “more genuineâ€)? But if it actually led to seeking the ‘truth’- instead of simply seeking something to enhance one’s sense of ‘authentic’ identity- how does this explain the consistent exaggeration of Fe’s weak spots? I’m just trying to point out that
in some people- I think the Fe bashing is really more about trying to paint themselves in a better light (emotional Viagra).