I did skim through some of the stuff on your site. (Sorry, I was amazed at the quantity of material you have and hope to read through it -- it's just very "thick" and is going to take me awhile... wow!) So I did see snippets of your discussion on this, the INP/ISF connection, etc., when you did the cross-comparisons between systems.
Are you still using the volume you printed out years ago? For the first page, it will still be pretty much the same, but page two (originally the longest one, dealing with MBTI) has since been broken down into several smaller parts, if you ever still plan to read that. (2, introducing MBTI from scratch; 2a how I evolved the correlation, another page that is a shorter essay on the correlation, 3, the other systems, and 4, the "dynamic type" idea with 81 types and jackandthebeast's "76 Types" function tables).
I guess the big thing with me is that the only amount of control I have ever really expressed is through the Phlegmatic, I have no real Choleric flavor in me at all. I demand control over myself, but I really do not like having control over other people directly; I don't like being a supervisor in a job setting; I don't like being in charge of groups EXCEPT that it allows me to make sure that the strategy/direction is correct... thus a necessary evil. I really like other people to rise to the occasion on their own and be self-directive.
I'm basically like that too, because the Supine and Choleric are diametric opposites, and it's like a tug of war at times. Even though Control covers leadership and responsibilities,
the speed at which we tend to undertake responsibilities is nevertheless tied to our Inclusion temperament. (I know, that can throw you off, but it does make sense, for you usually have to approach people on a surface interaction level before you can control them).
Hence, I don't really want to control or be responsible for others either, precisely because of my social reservation.
So for me, it comes out simply in wanting things my way, and then, if I feel more secure on the social level, I'll tend to readily cross boundaries in trying to make things my way or what I think makes sense. And, then, of course, I won't want anyone to control me either. Cognitively, it is explainable through the Ti+Ne.
You also have the typical NTP argumentativeness or oneupmanship, which I also associate with the Choleric. It will obviously be more apparent for ENTP's, because of the extroversion.
Also, since the Supine has the high want of social and deep personal interaction, yet not the expressive mechanism to gain it, I end up using the expressed Control (to compensate for the expressed Inclusion). Hence, I can track down and maintain contact with old friends/acquaintances that most would have long let go of; if I miss a person or group, find out the general area they will be in, and I usually find them, even in a large, crowded area. eC doesn't provide the social graces to be popular enough to have them come to me like eI does, but eC can sure find them.
Also, while I'm slow to start projects, once I do, I usually persevere until completion, and am pretty thorough.
(Hence, "Mission Impossible" as the FIRO name on the chart).
That also would be tied to the immature Si+Fe. An NTJ's "Choleric" behavior will be from the Te+Ni, and yet since their wanted Inclusion will be low (Melancholy or Choleric), they will not desire to maintain connections like that. Matching this, their immature functions will be Se+Fi.
The ideal for me would be a community with a shared vision where everyone takes responsible to contribute the most that they can for the good of the group... and thus i'm responsible for me and everyone else can be autonomous as well.
It's like "Informative" taken to the max setting.
That's probably an ideal most anyone can hold (except perhaps a Choleric compulsive in Control, or an unhealthy person), but Control preference (especially for those whose Inclusion/Affection tends to interpersonal harmony) will be about how we react when this ideal inevitably does not work out.
Yes, I'm 5w4. EXTREME wing. I always score higher in Five, and the description fits me better than 4w5... but I'm the bare number of points up the scale on Five. The next highest is Nine, and it's not nearly as close as the 4 and 5 are to each other.
I noticed on your chart that you had MP/SP on the Four node... and INP.
I've kind of stepped back from the APS-Enneagram correlation for now, since enneagram is structured so differently. Like INTP's being so 5 rather than necessarily IST, INJ or SJ being that type. I would think so=Inclusion, sp=Control and sx=affection; and INTP's would be 9so8sp5sx or maybe 6so1sp5sx (and me, 6so8sp6sx), and this
average out to a 5w6 or 5w4, but it is of course not structured that way.
The types do still seem to fit when mapped to expressive/responsive like that, though; hence you having such a strong 4 wing.
... the other thing I'll clarify from my prior post is that I sounded rather casual in my Supine-ish desire to connect? It's not really casual at all. It's one of those "deep pangs" where I feel a void and sense of deep loss if I don't connect with someone... see "sx" variant on the enneagram. I am driving to connect with the "real person" under all the surface stuff. But I also have this extreme sense of autonomy so if someone draws a hard boundary, I will never cross it nor bug them, almost to a fault, aside from an occasion line I will put in the water just so they know I'm open... but inside it hurts like hell, like I chopped off a finger. On the surface, I keep everything casual; inside, everything is very extreme and the two forces have to be intense in order to balance each other.
I feel very much like I've always had two extreme forces warring with each other inside, keeping each other in balance.
Yeah, that's the typical Supine frustration as emphasized in the APS manuals. It is believed that the temperament was missed for all those milennia, because on the surface they look so much like a regular Melancholy (or perhaps, Phlegmatic), and yet, nobody evwer knows they have this deep need that those two temperaments don't. The need equals that of the Sanguine, but the Sanguine, of course, expresses to others, and naturally gains the interaction they want.
That's so cool that You and Eric B are Supines :O. Wow...Interesting.
Yeah, now I really wish she had come to our meetup. There don't seem to be many Supines in my circle. Be nice to see others for a change.
You also would have seen Jenocyde's Choleric side (in a particular incident), to give an illustration of what I was saying above.
Also, I should clarify,
the Affection temperament is not determined by who controls who in deep personal relations. That would be Control. Once in the deep relationship, then the Control behavior will also affect the interaction in that area. My being supine in Affection doesn't mean I want to be controlled in my deep personal relation, like my marriage. It just means I'm not expressive of a lot of affection or deep connection, however, I do generally respond to it. I tend to be more controlling of the relationship because of the Control. (Even when it means me leaving her to make decisions because I don't feel like being bothered with it at that point).
So since both of you discussing that are moderate in both Control and Affection, it will be similar anyway; just to make clear that you don't look to the Affection temperament for who
controls the relationship.