^ Suicidal people don't create threads like this.
I am not an NT, so you should probably disregard my response... Does that make sense?
Maybe he's not suicidal, but not having pleasure in anything is also a sign of severe depression.
I know people who've killed themselves and people who've been thinking about it seriously. (They are often also still capable of philosophizing.) So this tends to be my main concern with posts like these.
I am confused by this statement. If you would, please rephrase it.
What is interesting about this is even now I am bound by the desires of humanity. I very much would like to thank everyone for their responses, thereby making a friendly social gesture in an attempt to experience a closeness with other members of the forum. At the same time, I see this desire for what it is, evolutionarily driven, and it disgusts me. I am really not very thankful, and yet would benefit from stating that I am because it would perhaps welcome more people to respond (maybe make me more likeable?).
I do not value truth, I do not disvalue truth. I see truth as holding value depending on what goals one wishes to achieve. You say what I do has no value, but what is value? Value is relative, and due to my impulse to be impossibly objective, nothing I see has value. I have a dichotomy of character. A need to have a purpose for everything that I do, but a realization that purpose is itself created by man's desire. How can I justify any action when that action is based on something that is unjustifiable, my own desire. If desire were the only justification, then it should be justifiable to rape, to murder, to torture a child into committing suicide, as long as such a thing was desirable to the person performing the action.
There is an inherent unfairness to the universe which I can no longer stand. Our society will punish some for actions while at the same time attempt to help others who perform the very same actions. Justification for this is proximity to the majority. If I were to kill a bunch of people, but it was discovered that I had an operable brain tumor in the part of my brain controlling aggression and self control, people might sympathize and let me off the hook. "Gosh, I could see something like that happening to myself." However, if what led me to perform such an action could not be distinguished, or was perhaps related to a abnormalities in my brain that the majority could reasonably assume would not befall them, then I would be sent away for life. In both circumstances, the cause of such actions would be structural, and theoretically curable. But, we treat them differently. It is really just people being pissed off and wanting to punish someone. There is no justice.
I do not need to experiment with my beliefs about control and the nature of humanity to know of their truth. I think if you were to deeply examine your own motivations, the way you "make decisions" you would agree with my understanding. You may not be obsessed with it, but you would concur.
I am disguised by myself, and I am disguised with humanity. I do appreciate your intelligence, however.
I may or may not be intuitive. But in the context of MBTI, I am assuredly INTP. In any event, agenda preserved.
What is interesting about this is even now I am bound by the desires of humanity. I very much would like to thank everyone for their responses, thereby making a friendly social gesture in an attempt to experience a closeness with other members of the forum. At the same time, I see this desire for what it is, evolutionarily driven, and it disgusts me. I am really not very thankful, and yet would benefit from stating that I am because it would perhaps welcome more people to respond (maybe make me more likable?). I long to be something more than a fucking selfish monkey who justifies his actions in ways that better suit his selfishness. But the way our current concept of selflessness works, one must in essence be selfish for another person to be considered selfless. If I donate a kidney to help a dying child, I am in essense doing the same thing as if the child were selfish and demanded the kidney from me. Why is it that people who give up parts of themselves for others are considered so great? It is because people enjoy the fact that there are people like that, all the more for them.
I actually do concur. There is no justice. But is not your need for justice just as irrational as the will which you're opposing? It is certainly just as artificial a concept as will, if not more so. Can you not simply accept that life is unfair, and that you must act in accordance with something that is unfair, because that is the kind of world you live in? If you cannot, you're simply being idealistic and silly.
Sometimes, injustice/imbalance is the only thing that produces results and understanding. Justice is balanced, and thus often results in stagnation.
Have you ever read the book, Descarte's Error: Emotion, Reason and the Human Brain? It gives evidence that rational thinking is not possible without the input of emotion.
I agree entirely. Those individuals who are rational, cold, and logical are ultimately driven by the emotional desire to be those things. My problem is my logical conclusions and my desire to be logical conflict with my other desires. It's an obsession.
I don't know if my need for justice is irrational, but it is indeed emotional. I hate that need. I wish it were gone. I feel as though I am both an NF and an NT, and that each fights for control on a daily basis. The NF longs for fairness and happiness and love, but the NT sees these things as inherently meaningless. They are only given meaning when they are put in the context of achieving some particular end, but that end is itself meaningless in the big scheme of things.
I have a desire to have sex with my girlfriend, and then I see myself as a fucking dog humping a leg when I do so. I have a desire for friendship, but I see myself as a monkey picking grubs off of another's back when I engage in ultimately-biological-meaningless-bonding-talk. I have a desire to achieve greatness, but I see myself as a weak person seeking the approval of my peers. I have a desire to know, but I see knowledge as meaningless if it serves no purpose but to be present in my physical brain, then rot away after death. I have a desire for purose, but I see purpose as purposeless.
Your problem, and this may be the hardest thing for an INTP to accept, is that you're over-intellectualizing life. Life does not fit inside an equation; an equation fits inside life. The moment you reverse this rule and reduce your existence to a string of numbers, you lose touch with reality and lock yourself in a prison of your own making.
You need to experience life in its purest essence, and to do that, you turn off your brain and take things at face value. In real life--not the explanations in your head--you experience yourself as free; and in real life--not the explanations in your head--you are a being, not a collection of cells. You bring yourself down to the purest mode of consciousness and strip everything else away*; and from this viewpoint, the world transforms. Suddenly you realize that there are a hundred, a million, a thousand different paths you can take. Life forbids nothing; only you do.
So why would you convince yourself that you're a lump of molecules with no free will? That viewpoint might earn you a degree in physics, but it won't make life a pleasant experience.
*Consider this a focal device, not something you can actually attain. The purpose of this focal device is not to eliminate ideas, since ideas constitute awareness, but rather to know that these ideas are flux and flexible.
Alright proof:
- Your mind is not part of matter
- Your emotions are not part of matter
- Your senses are not part of matter
It's impossible to show someone a 'mind', 'emotion' and 'sense' in solid form.
So what are they if they are not matter?
blah blah blah
He wanted proof. I gave proof. If he doesn't want to believe it, it's his choice. Same goes for anyone else. Also, if your going to quote me you might at least try and answer the question.That's fucking stupid.
The good old argument of 'green is in your head' doesn't connect with dualism. And dualism is more similar to comedy than philosophy to begin with.