Venom
Babylon Candle
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 2,126
- MBTI Type
- INTJ
- Enneagram
- 1w9
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
ExxJs would be the most judgmental.
IxxJs would the second most.
IxxPs would be the third most.
and ExxPs would be the least judgmental.
Does the same really go for perceptiveness?
Would ExxPs be the most perceptive?
Followed by IxxPs?
Followed by IxxJs?
Followed by ExxJs?
It seems to work rather cleanly from most judgmental to least judgmental, but are IxxJs and ExxJs indeed less perceptive than ExxPs and IxxPs?
I guess the question becomes: is perceiving really a thing-in-itself, or is it simply a lack of judging?
except that in reality, its the IPs who are the most stubborn of all!
You are using the wrong definition of "judgement" In MBTI terms, judging = likes closure and perceiving= likes options. However, judging does not equate to being "judgmental" and perceiving does not equate to being "perceptive".
exactly! J =! judgmental
I mean, ExxPs seem to much less judgmental (in the normal, everyday sense of the word) than your typical ExxJ, in my opinion.
but Fi can be one of the most judgmental functions! And sensor Ti is basically "gut logic", which is as much a function of whim as Fi is!
My experience is different. I find that EPs can be quite judgemental.
He gets it!
while close-mindedness might be a P's form of "openness" (echh... the worst -- this is what I hate about some Ps... they think they're open-minded, when, in fact, they're close-minded as shit).
Yep...ENFPs with rampant Fi
I wonder who you're talking about, here.
I'm closed minded regarding a couple of subjects, why?
Because what I believe in, (regarding these several subjects) happens to be categorically right.
It's not even about me, it's about the TRUTH.
exhibit A...her Fi has been violated
In fact, it's not; it is, as you said, deluded "open-mindedness".
In the perception of the subject, they are open-minded; however, in truth, they are close-minded.
I'm thinking of the close-minded ExFP who thinks she's open-minded because she believes in... hmm, let's say, gay marriage, for example... and she cannot imagine how anybody else could not have a different opinion about gay marriage, and, furthermore, that anyone who does have a different opinion must be close-minded.
In this case, the ExFP might think she's open-minded, but, in reality, an open-minded person would be open to the idea that people could have differing opinions about gay marriage.
Thus, her "open-mindedness" is actually close-mindedness.
CLASSIC Fi closed mindedness!
Loved your answer... this is Ni magic.
Ni to the rescue...see at least a Ni person can simultaneously sit on the fence about issues, knowing "HOW" certain people believe certain things without just assuming the other person is evil, stupid or arrogant.
I've run into this before. And it's not limited to any particular type, but is does seem to be an aspect of "P".
There is no one so close-minded as someone who believes that oneself is open-minded. They listen to your opinion, consider it, and then inform you that they don't find it persuasive, or that they don't understand why you believe that your arguments imply your conclusion or any number of such things. In general, their response seems to indicate that you have the burden of proof, but of course, you can't prove jack to them.
The "J" style is more about getting things done. Anything that gets in the way of getting things done must be resolved, and "J" types will engage in plenty of negotiation so long as they're willing to pay the price to accomplish a task. This may not precisely be "openminded," but one can easily see the grounds by which one might change their mind. The "P" style on the other hand typically doesn't have a task to accomplish, there is no particular leverage by which to get them to listen, they have nothing to lose by insisting on their particular beliefs.
In function terms, Te and Fe are about interacting and sharing with other people. There is necessarily a give and take. Particular individuals might be stubborn, but they play by the give and the take if either Te or Fe predominates. Fi and Ti, however, have established core values and principles. Those principles do not whimsically change, in spite of the superficially whimsical nature of Fi and Ti (which is really the whimsical nature of Ne or Se).
In summary, Fi blows.