Z Buck McFate
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2009
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- Enneagram
- 5w4
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/sp
***I wrote this up beforehand, and now I’ve noticed that it’s kind of similar to a thread started by revolve about ENFPs developing Fi. It’s the same topic matter, but since I have additional questions I’m going to start a different thread; I’ll leave it up to the moderators to decide if it should be merged.***
I’ve been reading (in Lenore Thompson’s book) about how N doms sometimes resist their auxiliary function and rely on their tertiary. Ni doms (INJs) become more introverted, and Ne doms (ENPs) become more extraverted. According to Thompson, it’s because our least function is Sensation: INJs resist external reality (Se) and ENPs resist internal reality (Si). I already know what the Ni Introvert rabbit-hole is like, I was wondering about this ENP super-extravertedness.
Part of what Thompson says about it (p. 207):
I dated a guy (for eight years) who I think had exactly this problem. He tested ENFP, but- the more I learn about the Fe/Fi distinction, and the more I read about the consequences of ENPs turning to their tertiary- I’m starting to think he’s a textbook case of ENTP minus Introverted Judgment (who tested F because his Fe was so high). He was constantly writing checks (in the metaphorical sense) that his Introverted Judgment couldn’t cash. And he saw it as an inevitable consequence of his “passion”; he never thought he should feel bad about letting anyone down, as long the promise he made felt honest at the time he made it. If he is actually ENTP less the Introverted Judgment- or even if he was really ENFP, but still without Introverted Judgment- it would explain *A LOT*. He didn’t have much of a conscience; he truly wanted to, but he never held the immediate desire to have a healthy conscience long enough to actually form one.
More Thompson (p. 208):
First question:
So anyway, I’m wondering about the ENP pull towards super-Extravertedness. Personally, I know my own Ni dom pull toward Introverted Judgment has been a recurrent theme in my life; it isn’t a lesson I can learn just once, it’s something that I unconsciously sink into and have to learn over and over again. Do any of you ENPs have this same problem with the Ne dom pull towards Extraverted Judgment? Do you feel it’s more difficult for you- to learn the importance of maintaining consistent subjective values- than other types?
It seems there are all sorts of comments around this forum by INJs, discussing the ‘too introverted’ problem; but I don’t think I’ve seen any relating to its ENP equivalent (except maybe the thread by revolve I mentioned at the beginning). I realize it’s probably because ENPs with an aversion to introspection aren’t as likely to want to discuss it- because it would require introspection to do so- but I thought it was an observation worth noting.
Second question:
Is this why ENPs and INJs are supposedly such a good match (the former is inclined to have surplus of Extraverted Judgment, the latter a surplus of Introverted Judgment)? Because I’m not so sure it was healthy for my ex to have access to a pile of someone else’s surplus Introverted Judgment sitting around at home. I often wonder if it prevented him from feeling motivated to do the work himself. While we were together, there were friends who actually referred to me as “Chris’s Conscience”. Thoughts about how it could be beneficial?
[In case anyone’s interested, I posted what Thompson wrote about the Ni equivalent pull towards super-Introvertedness (for INJs) here in Skyward’s thread.]
I’ve been reading (in Lenore Thompson’s book) about how N doms sometimes resist their auxiliary function and rely on their tertiary. Ni doms (INJs) become more introverted, and Ne doms (ENPs) become more extraverted. According to Thompson, it’s because our least function is Sensation: INJs resist external reality (Se) and ENPs resist internal reality (Si). I already know what the Ni Introvert rabbit-hole is like, I was wondering about this ENP super-extravertedness.
Part of what Thompson says about it (p. 207):
ENPs have the idea that paying more attention to their inner life means ignoring situational distinctions and doing whatever “feels” right to them at the time. But Introverted Judgment is a rational function. It helps us to see that our actions have effects that go beyond our immediate situation, and they need to be taken into account.
I dated a guy (for eight years) who I think had exactly this problem. He tested ENFP, but- the more I learn about the Fe/Fi distinction, and the more I read about the consequences of ENPs turning to their tertiary- I’m starting to think he’s a textbook case of ENTP minus Introverted Judgment (who tested F because his Fe was so high). He was constantly writing checks (in the metaphorical sense) that his Introverted Judgment couldn’t cash. And he saw it as an inevitable consequence of his “passion”; he never thought he should feel bad about letting anyone down, as long the promise he made felt honest at the time he made it. If he is actually ENTP less the Introverted Judgment- or even if he was really ENFP, but still without Introverted Judgment- it would explain *A LOT*. He didn’t have much of a conscience; he truly wanted to, but he never held the immediate desire to have a healthy conscience long enough to actually form one.
More Thompson (p. 208):
To honor [a] subjective value is to forfeit some of our behavioral options, but it also gives our deeper intentions outward form, puts our humanity on the line.
ENPs are well accustomed to making personal sacrifices, but largely for the sake of their Intuitions. They’ll forfeit a great deal of material stability for the sake for increased options. But they need to reflect on a situation from an Introverted standpoint- to recognize that their responsibility to a situation outweighs some of the options available to them. [….]
When ENPs resist their Introverted Judgment, Introverted Sensation gets too far from their conscious self-experience, and they have a hard time resisting its influence on them. Such types turn to Extraverted Judgment, their tertiary function, attempting to keep their Intuitive self-understanding intact.
First question:
So anyway, I’m wondering about the ENP pull towards super-Extravertedness. Personally, I know my own Ni dom pull toward Introverted Judgment has been a recurrent theme in my life; it isn’t a lesson I can learn just once, it’s something that I unconsciously sink into and have to learn over and over again. Do any of you ENPs have this same problem with the Ne dom pull towards Extraverted Judgment? Do you feel it’s more difficult for you- to learn the importance of maintaining consistent subjective values- than other types?
It seems there are all sorts of comments around this forum by INJs, discussing the ‘too introverted’ problem; but I don’t think I’ve seen any relating to its ENP equivalent (except maybe the thread by revolve I mentioned at the beginning). I realize it’s probably because ENPs with an aversion to introspection aren’t as likely to want to discuss it- because it would require introspection to do so- but I thought it was an observation worth noting.
Second question:
Is this why ENPs and INJs are supposedly such a good match (the former is inclined to have surplus of Extraverted Judgment, the latter a surplus of Introverted Judgment)? Because I’m not so sure it was healthy for my ex to have access to a pile of someone else’s surplus Introverted Judgment sitting around at home. I often wonder if it prevented him from feeling motivated to do the work himself. While we were together, there were friends who actually referred to me as “Chris’s Conscience”. Thoughts about how it could be beneficial?
[In case anyone’s interested, I posted what Thompson wrote about the Ni equivalent pull towards super-Introvertedness (for INJs) here in Skyward’s thread.]