I am giving up my belief that a three headed God, called the Trinity, created the universe. And I am giving up worship in a criminal Church that has organised and hidden child sexual abuse for decade, after decade, after decade.
So what are you going to do then when Lent ends?
While I am not particularly Christian, I do like participating in rituals such as this because I understand the lesson it teaches. But I forgot when it began.
That is actually something I've been researching since I started this. It seems to be all over the place.
For example, in the early Roman days it was only a few weeks. Then it got extended to the full 40 days then it got changed to 46 some odd days but Sundays no longer count (as they days are dedicated to the Lord and observance of penitence rituals aren't required, though not discouraged either, depending on who you ask). This also appears to be a wholly Catholic/more conservative Christian thing. Lent is observed by the Roman, Anglican, East Orthodox, and Lutheran churches but it's practice and observance is all over the place.
How you're supposed to fast and/or what you are to abstain from also varies. For some its fasting from Meat on Fridays along with Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, for others it's the 'One Thing' you give up for the season, with some considering Sunday as a cheat day (for reasons stated above)
It's been an interesting journey for me thus far. 12 days into it, I find myself pondering what exactly it is I'm doing. Video Games may sound like an incredibly silly or contrived thing to give up but I have discovered I did spend a disproportionate amount of time playing them and neglecting/not doing other things and abstaining from that has been revelatory. My house is cleaner, I've managed to catch up on some books that I've been neglecting for a while, and I'm spending much more time cooking in the kitchen.
It's been beneficial for me....but I don't feel any spiritually closer to God. Granted, I'm not even at the half way mark, but I have found myself wondering if I'm doing this right.
I've been following some Catholic reddit threads and one theme that has emerged is that rather than just giving something up, that you should to things for others. Basically, don't give up some minor luxury but rather give up your time for charity and aid. I agree with this idea.
Finally, to end this scattershot train of thought, I discovered this article which I really liked. One quote from it in particular
“Guilt, in stasis, becomes pathology. Lent, openly entered, gives guilt space, nakedness and, most important, narrative progression. The season is a passage, moving us from paranoia to metanoia, from being literally out of our own minds to being reconciled with our true minds through repentance. Deprivation itself can be a gift.â€
Anywho, sorry for bouncing all over the place, just wanted to get all of that out.
I think it's interesting to research how things went from this..
to this...
I'm a big fan of Lent and the fish fries that accompany it in places with a heavy Catholic population. But I like the more logical flow to the Wheel of the Year. Much less boogieman and more emphasis on the natural world. I also like the benefits of fasting so I decided to do it daily.
What is your definition of "lapsed catholic"?Ceecee you got SO much baggage when it comes to Catholicism, though if I remember right you're not a lapsed Catholic or anything like that?
Those fish dinners used to be a staple of any given friday back when people were more observant and used to deliberately seek to restrict their meat eating as a sacrifice. I do like fish and chips. Even if that particular piece of history has been revised within the UK as to be an invention of Jewish immigrants to the UK. I did think that was an odd development but there's a lot that doesnt make sense to me globally when it comes to religion and tradition and how those things effect people.
For instance a picture of the crucifixion next to the message "He is Risen", that strikes me as odd, its like "well, he wasnt at that point obviously" and I dont think he'd be looking like that at that point either
I saw a fantastic film lately about the resurrection, it follows a Roman soldier who is investigating reports of strange goings on and the possible theft of a corpse, I wish I could remember the title of it. It had the guy who plays Harry Potter's adversary Maltho or Malthus or whatever in it.
What is your definition of "lapsed catholic"?
I agree with [MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] here. Our spiritual observances used to be much more attuned to the Creation than they are now. Viewed that way, Lenten deprivations coincide with the time of year when winter stores are becoming depleted, but spring harvests are not yet ready. Seems as much a practical necessity as anything else. The idea of giving up meat as penance or self-discipline is also laughable, as in many times and places, only the wealthy could afford it. Going without was a part of daily life for everyone else. Add to that the fact that seafood is now usually more expensive, and that Catholics have always been able to satisfy the requirement with shrimp, lobster, or other items generally viewed as "fine dining", and the "Fish on Friday" rule becomes more a cultural element than any sort of spiritual discipline.
As for the imagery of Christ on the cross, I know the hymn about "nailing him to a tree", and have heard countless sermons tying the symbolism of the wood of the cross to the wood of the manger in representing life, love, and redemption. I say: leave the wood in the tree, where it belongs. That is symbol - and reality - enough for me.
I don't see the relevance of any of this, and did not say the highlighted.You dont think there were any wealthy Catholics?
Have you thought about why Zen other ideas like it could arise in a warrior culture and be applied to or associated with the warrior caste?
History is replete with practices that were supposed to be universal and perennial but in reality meant more to, when they were not the preserve, of elites.
I agree that the cultural and spiritual are closely intertwined. It is easiest, after all, to pursue our spirituality with what is close at hand. My point is that a practice that is supposedly for self-discipline and penance does not serve that purpose in most cases. It is fine to follow it simply for tradition's sake, but then its meaning is different.I personally dont consider there to be a hard and fast boundary between the cultural and the spiritual, I do understand that many cultural or spiritual norms are closely associated with necessity too, its only lately that there's been a radical departure from that and I wouldnt suggest its a facet of religious traditions so much as other trends or fashions.
"Lapse" means: "to fall from an attained and usually high level (as of morals or manners) to one much lower; to depart from an accepted pattern or standard". That's a rather pejorative label for individuals who have simply determined that their spiritual paths lie elsewhere.Lapsed Catholics are those who have been baptised, raised in the faith, may have practiced it at a time but do not any longer, they may be atheists or they may believe other things but they were once roman catholics.
I don't see the relevance of any of this, and did not say the highlighted.
Ceecee you got SO much baggage when it comes to Catholicism, though if I remember right you're not a lapsed Catholic or anything like that?
Those fish dinners used to be a staple of any given friday back when people were more observant and used to deliberately seek to restrict their meat eating as a sacrifice. I do like fish and chips. Even if that particular piece of history has been revised within the UK as to be an invention of Jewish immigrants to the UK. I did think that was an odd development but there's a lot that doesnt make sense to me globally when it comes to religion and tradition and how those things effect people.
For instance a picture of the crucifixion next to the message "He is Risen", that strikes me as odd, its like "well, he wasnt at that point obviously" and I dont think he'd be looking like that at that point either
I saw a fantastic film lately about the resurrection, it follows a Roman soldier who is investigating reports of strange goings on and the possible theft of a corpse, I wish I could remember the title of it. It had the guy who plays Harry Potter's adversary Maltho or Malthus or whatever in it.
What took you so long? I gave that up long ago, to embark on my own time of personal reflection, that ultimately set me on my present path.I am giving up my belief that a three headed God, called the Trinity, created the universe. And I am giving up worship in a criminal Church that has organised and hidden child sexual abuse for decade, after decade, after decade.
I wouldn't call myself lapsed as I didn't choose to be baptized or attend Catholic school or any of the rest of it. My parents chose that for me. You automatically placing my inquiry into the - you got baggage - category isn't uprising, it's the way most people that question religion of any kind are treated, as questioning was unthinkable not so long ago. But imma inquire anyway as it's my way of doing things.
I saw the movie Risen at the theater a few years ago. I thought it was a very unique way to present the journey of belief. I've never not believed in Jesus as an extraordinary person and a human inspiration and worth investigation from a historical perspective.
In the US, fish fries are not everywhere so, they're a treat for the non-religious among us. But I'm already restricting meat eating to most days of the week year around for health, not religious, reasons. Christian holidays and observations often come from established pagan holidays or observation. I'm interested the journey of everyday people from one to the other as this method was done to ease people from one enforced belief to another. Not sure why anyone would qualify that inquiry as "baggage" either.
I didn't see anyone suggest otherwise. Did you? We are not our parents, though, and must live our own lives. I commented on this above.I think its great how parents can seek to provide children with the benefits of their experience and enduring traditions which have proven their value over generations, dont you?
For me, it is a matter of honesty and accuracy. If you borrow from another tradition, whether as an individual or as an institution, that should be acknowledged rather than whitewashed in a form of religious plagiarism. But then that would be admitting that you didn't have all the answers, and had something to learn from outside your own tradition.Sometimes Christianity sought to co-opt traditions, sometimes it didnt, although if tradition doesnt count for much and everyone can chart their own course, even in as short a time as a single life span, what does it matter if Christianity was co-opting earlier traditions or not?
I think its great how parents can seek to provide children with the benefits of their experience and enduring traditions which have proven their value over generations, dont you?
My observation about baggage wasnt any sort of generalisation BTW, I know plenty of people who've lapsed from a faith or tradition, or taken different directions in life, who dont seem to have the baggage that I think you might have. Why did you think that? Why did you automatically go to this place where you assume that I'd think inquiry was unthinkable? What could it all mean Ceecee, eh?
Sometimes Christianity sought to co-opt traditions, sometimes it didnt, although if tradition doesnt count for much and everyone can chart their own course, even in as short a time as a single life span, what does it matter if Christianity was co-opting earlier traditions or not?