sculpting
New member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2009
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So I encountered a situation in a facebook discussion which I have seen pop up from time to time in real life or in watching others.
The specific convo was:
Person 1-screw Obama!!!
Person 2-That is uncivil and is an attack on our commander in chief and thus an attack on our soldiers, thus you dont care about our soldiers and I will let the soldiers I work with tommorrow know about your attitude.
Person 1-Huh??
Aside from Person 1 ranting and being obnoxious and uncouth, and putting aside the actual politics, I dont see a clear connection from how the comment on an individual (obama) relates back to a comment upon an entire organization (the US army). In my mind, and I assume the mind of person 1, each individual is an isolated entity worthy or praise or critique. A figurehead is not representative of a group.
Another convo I once had with a close INFJ friend as I was leaving a job and starting a new job:
INFJ: You know you owe all of your sucess to the company. They promoted you and gave you the chance to move upwards.
(Odd as the company is incredibly disfunctional)
Me: Actually I owe those opportunities to Bob, Sam and John. Each gave picked me at specific times in my career and gave me the chance to move into their groups and move upwards. Without each recognizing what I could offer and giving me freedom and resources to deliver, I would have gone nowhere.
INFJ: Sure, but they wouldnt have their jobs without the company, so you owe your success to the company still.
**************************************************
Convos like this (and my seeming confusion at the rationale) make me think I am seeing this issues from a Ji perpsective perhaps and missing a Je aspect of the situation. I assumed Fe at first, given the two convos had a Fe-ish flavor to them, but this could be a Te thing as well.
**********************************************
Questions:
How do you relate your own individuality to the groups you interact with?
Do you ever seem to sacrifice individuality to the group?
Do you take critique of the group as critique of yourself?
Do you take critique of the figurehead as critique of yourself or others?
Do you note individuals or groups as having a stronger effect upon your successes?
(These are all pretty random, so please feel free to add your own thoughts, feelings or observations.)
(Also, this isnt an Fe-bashing thread-At the moment, the above comments seem "irrational" to me, meaning I cannot see or understand the reasoning behind them. It doesnt mean they ARE irrational, thus I am hoping to gain insight on what I dont understand, in order to be certain that I can provide flexibility in my interactions with others, to make room for their worldviews that differ from mine)
*******************************************************************
EDIT-Another interesting scenario
so another example:
My friend and I worked on a very large project together. At the end of the project, I wanted to give awards to the top 5% team members- a few folks who had given up everything to make the project a go. The above and beyond folks.
She felt, instead that a much larger percentage of folks should get awards-like 40% or so, and that was split into functional groups, like the QA group or the chemistry R&D group for heroic team effort.
However another person, who was working on preparing the awards, ended up giving everyone-a full 183 people-an award and did not call out any specific individuals or groups.
What would you have felt was the best way to reward a group of this sort? (No wrong answers at all ) (I'll also odd to the OP)
(Also, I realize I am using typology as a handle of sorts, a label, but I am very much enjoying reading how responses are quite varied, thus I am not at all tied to a notion of typology at all, rather just exploring the inter-relationships for each individual)
The specific convo was:
Person 1-screw Obama!!!
Person 2-That is uncivil and is an attack on our commander in chief and thus an attack on our soldiers, thus you dont care about our soldiers and I will let the soldiers I work with tommorrow know about your attitude.
Person 1-Huh??
Aside from Person 1 ranting and being obnoxious and uncouth, and putting aside the actual politics, I dont see a clear connection from how the comment on an individual (obama) relates back to a comment upon an entire organization (the US army). In my mind, and I assume the mind of person 1, each individual is an isolated entity worthy or praise or critique. A figurehead is not representative of a group.
Another convo I once had with a close INFJ friend as I was leaving a job and starting a new job:
INFJ: You know you owe all of your sucess to the company. They promoted you and gave you the chance to move upwards.
(Odd as the company is incredibly disfunctional)
Me: Actually I owe those opportunities to Bob, Sam and John. Each gave picked me at specific times in my career and gave me the chance to move into their groups and move upwards. Without each recognizing what I could offer and giving me freedom and resources to deliver, I would have gone nowhere.
INFJ: Sure, but they wouldnt have their jobs without the company, so you owe your success to the company still.
**************************************************
Convos like this (and my seeming confusion at the rationale) make me think I am seeing this issues from a Ji perpsective perhaps and missing a Je aspect of the situation. I assumed Fe at first, given the two convos had a Fe-ish flavor to them, but this could be a Te thing as well.
**********************************************
Questions:
How do you relate your own individuality to the groups you interact with?
Do you ever seem to sacrifice individuality to the group?
Do you take critique of the group as critique of yourself?
Do you take critique of the figurehead as critique of yourself or others?
Do you note individuals or groups as having a stronger effect upon your successes?
(These are all pretty random, so please feel free to add your own thoughts, feelings or observations.)
(Also, this isnt an Fe-bashing thread-At the moment, the above comments seem "irrational" to me, meaning I cannot see or understand the reasoning behind them. It doesnt mean they ARE irrational, thus I am hoping to gain insight on what I dont understand, in order to be certain that I can provide flexibility in my interactions with others, to make room for their worldviews that differ from mine)
*******************************************************************
EDIT-Another interesting scenario
so another example:
My friend and I worked on a very large project together. At the end of the project, I wanted to give awards to the top 5% team members- a few folks who had given up everything to make the project a go. The above and beyond folks.
She felt, instead that a much larger percentage of folks should get awards-like 40% or so, and that was split into functional groups, like the QA group or the chemistry R&D group for heroic team effort.
However another person, who was working on preparing the awards, ended up giving everyone-a full 183 people-an award and did not call out any specific individuals or groups.
What would you have felt was the best way to reward a group of this sort? (No wrong answers at all ) (I'll also odd to the OP)
(Also, I realize I am using typology as a handle of sorts, a label, but I am very much enjoying reading how responses are quite varied, thus I am not at all tied to a notion of typology at all, rather just exploring the inter-relationships for each individual)
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