Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,621
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 548
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
There's a description of how that test works in one of the papers on Dario Nardi's site (the cognitiveprocesses test). I still think some of the questions on that test are a bit misworded, and I told them so in the feedback form. My Ne score was low because I missed all the Ne questions that had the word "random" in them. (I told them, 'the whole point is that it's NOT random',)
I actually completely disregard that facet stuff, and ever since I read about the facets in a sample MBTI part II report, I've concluded that they're BS. And I keep wondering, What did they base those on? (I bet that it's some circular logic thing where they based it on how people answered step two questions.) Facets schmacets. (according to the step II, am I supposed to 'accomadate' you right now and pretend that I think the facets are for real? OMG, I must not be a real ENFP).
No, no, no! That's the whole point of subscales. This shows you can be "questioning" and not accomodating, yet still prefer F in other areas, thus still being an ENFP! In this case, it would be called an "out of preference subscale" (OOPS)
Here's the descriptions and exercises from Hartzler's book I used to clarify it for me:
Questioning
T9 I use questioning to uncover premises and logical thought patterns of others
-The next time someone makes a statement that seems illogical, ask questions until it does seem logical
-If something a person says is confusing, ask questions to clarify. Go deeper into the concept, challenge person's facts assumptions or logical connections
Accommodating
F6 I attempt to connect with other people's points of view in order to maintain relationships
-Look for areas of agreement. Show how you can modify your position to match their's.
-Gently correct in critiquing (e.g. "My experience is..." "Have you considered"?)
-In a conflict situation, look at what your values are and other person's values. Look for ones you both believe in, then talk about differences.
-Recall some people in your life with whom you have not had as much contact as you would like. Find out how to spend time together to reconnect
Breaking it down this way, it now looks more like a logical dichotomy. You either try to make sense of things by questioning what someone says, or by looking for areas of agreement; and possibly being more willing to modify your position. It does not even say you have to modify them or accept the other person's position.
This is the mistake I made just looking at the words (facet names and brief definitions) alone. But the book really showed that it does make sense. So if you preferred accomodating, then you would phrase your objection as something like "Have you considered that the facets are not real", or point out what you see in them you can relate to, even though you're still not sure about them.
And people should consider they might be making this mistake with me. (I still wonder what Xander meant by "e-mail like an INFP")from INFJ or INFP? a closer look
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
More with the stereotypes! Here's the latest: people assume Feeling types are touchy-feely warm and cuddly.
Nyuh-uh.
Once you learn about interaction styles, you will discover this image is not necessarily true!
I had an encounter with an INFJ girlfriend recently who insisted that her husband was more "effie" than she is, and ergo must be a feeling type. My take on the husband was that his preferences were more likely for INTP. But, ironically, INTPs regularly come across as more "effie" than many Fs do. Most of the INTPs I know seem like big cuddly bears, despite their Temperament!
I've also met a number of INFPs who believe they are NTs because they don't think they are "effie" enough to be an F. But doesn't that make sense?! After all, their Feeling function is introverted, and they don't show it around to everybody. They prefer to feel harmony in their environment -- but that doesn't mean they're some font of outpouring love with everyone they meet! Their Feeling function is directed inwards, not outwards.
INFJs aren't very "effie" either, I regret to say. We can be rather harsh critics at times, thanks to our extraverted Feeling judgments. Put that in combination with our devotion to Time & Task and our directing style of communication, and it's no wonder so many INFJs believe they're INTJs instead!
For all Feeling types, Dr. Beebe says that people often make the mistake of assuming Feeling = caring, when in truth, it can sometimes be cold, ruthless, and calculating instead. So some Feeling types can be extremely nasty indeed!
This is one of those times when "trait" descriptions really get in the way of "pattern" descriptions. People would rather believe all Fs fit some kind of friendly stereotype without taking the time to realize the falsity of this belief. Don't make that mistake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warning: The more I hear people spout feeling stereotypes, the bigger bitch I'll be. I suppose the whole forum knows that by now though, huh?
Yeah;
I always put directing/informing above the simple T/F dichotomy. For Sensors, T/F does follow D/Inf, but for Intuitors, it is J/P that determines that, and T/F is Structure/Motive, which also adds a measure of "criticalness" or "accomodation" to the type, but the outward social behavior will be determined by the Interaction Style factor. This page Achilles Tendencies: Exploring Human Frailty and Personality Type which helped me understand a lot of this stuff, put it best: The FP is the most friendly (informative), the TJ is the most directive, and the TP and FJ are "somewhere in between". The TP is the most pragmatic, the FJ is the most cooperative or empathetic, and FP and TJ are somewhere in between. (He doesn't even accept Keirsey and Berens models, but I realized, for instance, that FP's were Informing + Motive, TJ's were Directing + Structure, and the FJ's and TP's mixed those dichotomies).
So while "Feeling" will indicate that the person will tend to not be the most "critical" of the types, yet they can still be pretty directive (or structure focused, though not both), when the Feeling is extraverted.