It's almost like, if the ISFP mom is a bad mom, she deserves all the commentary raised against her. Is that how some folks feel?
Complaining behind someone's back is a counter-productive waste of time and energy. I'm struggling to find any benefits.
Be part of the solution, not the problem. I'm the type that would be helping the ISFP connect with the resources that would help her. If I saw a financial need, I'd probably help her out if she was living in my place. The ISFP's cleanliness would not bother me, as it's none of my business, nor would I make it my business. If I was concerned that her children were abused, I would turn her into child protective services for investigation, not vent. Again, venting is counter-productive.
In summary, I'm saying I'm not holding in any negative feelings at all. There's nothing to vent about. I've solved the problem or facilitated positive change here. As a result, I'll sleep well at night. I'm not suggesting anybody hold in any negative feelings. I'm saying take positive action.
^And that's who I am.
EW's post isn't meant to be extrapolated in the direction that Orangey is taking.
I think to Fe-Ti, the veracity of the claims (or lack thereof, depending) is very relevant to the conversation that took place. To determine whether the ISTP was being overly harsh or not, it seems important to know whether the claims were valid.
I think in Fi-Te terms that perhaps is a separate issue. For me, it is one and the same issue, and that is maybe why there seems to be a disconnect.
The problem is that we don't have the benefit of all the information in order to make a judgement. We're extrapolating without sufficient data or verifying data, about both people really. It makes the discussion speculative at best.
I think to Fi / Te, even if the ISFP mom was doing all the things the ISTP said (since the ISTP was speaking in a lot of absolutes and using dramatic prose, it is hard to imagine there's not some exaggeration, and if she really felt the children were being neglected it seems inconceivable that she wouldn't have already contacted children's services), the ISFP mom still deserves to be treated with a core of respect. That's about the best way I can sum it up.
It's almost like, if the ISFP mom is a bad mom, she deserves all the commentary raised against her. Is that how some folks feel?
Be part of the solution, not the problem. I'm the type that would be helping the ISFP connect with the resources that would help her. If I saw a financial need, I'd probably help her out if she was living in my place. The ISFP's cleanliness would not bother me, as it's none of my business, nor would I make it my business. If I was concerned that her children were abused, I would turn her into child protective services for investigation, not vent. Again, venting is counter-productive.
In summary, I'm not holding in any negative feelings; thus, there's nothing to vent about. Why? Because I've taken action to solve the problem or facilitate positive change here. As a result, I'll sleep well at night.
^And that's who I am.
You don't know me. I'm a good person. I care about people. I hold no ill wills. I help people when I can.
I also don't see the ISTP/ISFP's situation as complicated.
With that said, I have nothing more to add to this discussion.
People who judge people who judge.
Just a point about Christians who do good deeds even when they are not feeling it: they do it for Christ's sake. Sometimes you don't get past your own human nature enough to be truly saintly and love every person and not judge anyone, but you can at least do what Jesus asked you to do, which is feed and clothe and shelter the poor, visit the sick, visit the prisoners...It's like having a job. Sometimes you hate your stinking job, but you do it because it's your job. Well, sometimes you really don't feel like doing good works, but you do them anyway, because they need to be done and it's your job because took a vow to live as a Christian to the best of your ability. It's not personal, actually. It's not about liking the person so you decide you will help them, or about feeling generous toward someone, so you decide to take them in. It's not even about showing off. Even Mother Theresa said very explicitly that sometimes she wasn't feelin' it, not even a little bit, and some days she wasn't even sure there was a God.
Basing your Christianity on whether you feel like it or not is not a very good approach because of course you won't always feel like it. That doesn't mean you get to quit. You may actively dislike who has been put in your path for you to help, and that's too bad, too. Sometimes it's just like that. There are certain ways of being in the world that Jesus was very clear about -- pay your taxes, for example, whether you support the government or not. Be a lawful citizen.
I kind of see the church lady caught in that struggle. Sometimes when I've succeeded brilliantly in acting right, the more of a struggle it was, the more I would like to vent about how hard it is.
As far as some of the judgments on the kids, I wonder if she's saying the mother seems to have no plan to work with them -- she just holds the baby, as opposed to making eye contact with it, talking to it, encouraging it to talk, playing peek-a-boo or where's your nose etc -- same thing with the older child, who, when you speak to it, it just looks at you, and the mother doesn't prompt it to teach it basic conversation skills -- "Can you say hello to Mrs. Church Lady? Say hello." The kids run around like dogs -- as opposed to her reading them Dr. Seuss books or some other directed, interactive activity that would help them learn to focus and follow directions and be ready to learn in school. They don't eat food or seem puzzled by it because they're not encouraged to eat new things or to eat at all. The complaint seems to me to be more that she's not trying than about whether or not she is getting results.
I agree with whoever posted upthread that the church lady is judging the young mother as a mother, not as a person. She's evaluating her job performance. It's not so personal.
You don't know me. I'm a good person. I care about people. I hold no ill wills. I help people when I can. I have nothing more to add.
Be part of the solution, not the problem. I'm the type that would help the ISFP connect with the resources that would help her. If I saw a financial need, I'd probably help her out if she was living in my place. The ISFP's cleanliness would not bother me, as it's none of my business, nor would I make it my business. If I was concerned that her children were abused, I would turn her into child protective services for investigation, not vent. Again, venting is counter-productive.
In summary, I'm not holding in any negative feelings; thus, there's nothing to vent about. Why? Because I've taken action to solve the problem or facilitate positive change here. As a result, I'll sleep well at night.
^And that's who I am.
I understand all of your positions. I'm not trying to take away from anyone here or shut down this thread. Nor am I sitting around judging anyone. I am simply sharing ideas and things I've recently learned. It's not necessary to respond to me as if I don't understand y'alls side. For heaven's sake, I do! I just want to share thoughts as well. Please let me do that in peace.
<3
That's fine, only your previous statements were kinda judgey. Go back and read them. You weren't saying that this is what works in your experience; you were saying that basically no one should ever need to vent, and that venting was always counterproductive. That might be true for a dom/aux Fi person, which I believe you to be. But it's not the case for an Fe user. When you imply that it should be, you can't really expect people to leave you in peace and not challenge what you're saying. If it had been clear in your posts that you understood there was another perspective, neither Athenian nor I would have felt the need to address that idea.