One presumes it must exist, what with Fe being the relief function. But what does it amount to? All I think I'm immediately aware of is ENTPs don't like having their sincerity questioned.
Or do you?
And perhaps because we can seem to come across as cold...this perhaps is why others may lead to think of insincerity.
...and if there isn't a recognisable Fe response from the other people?
(Flying blind here! I don't know what "a recognisable Fe response" is.)
And perhaps because we can seem to come across as cold...this perhaps is why others may lead to think of insincerity.
(don't know how I come off online ... like someone who punches butt?).
2. A need for status-this is odd but all of my entps will do these odd things. They will mix low status things with the occasional very high status item-like they are internally driven to get a bit of social recognition due to Fe obligations but are so Ne, they kind of mess it up and only get the social image half right... A 3000 dollar dog combined with crooked bow ties, 150 dollar sunglasses with flip flops, really nice cars, 200 dollar coffee makers in a house with no furniture. Much more noticable as they age. Some of them eat funny as well. Very fancy food.
4. Shunning-they shun your ass when you make them uncomfortable (fuck you brian). I directly confront others in an issue. They retreat and hide. I think this is the Fe circles of social interaction. You get shoved outside of all the circles.
4. Shunning-they shun your ass when you make them uncomfortable (fuck you brian). I directly confront others in an issue. They retreat and hide. I think this is the Fe circles of social interaction. You get shoved outside of all the circles.
Maybe this is true, but I don't do it consciously. If I am engaged, I will engage you. If I am put off, I will not engage you. But I don't do this to control. It has more to do with what I stated above. I guess I just like things to be happy and pleasant at all times. If something is a downer or draining, I tend to just avoid it.5. Control-they use Fe to control others by social inclusion/exclusion. One of my faves actually would physically touch my back to bring me into a conversation, then withdrew touch when I said something he did not agree with. I watched him do this with several others throughout the night. When they need to control others Fe is the tool they use.
I've never seen this in action, but I'll take your word for it. I can't imagine myself this way, though. I guess the females are different?7. The older males seem overly submissive to authority figures. They are very unwilling to step outside of the proper chain of command. It is really odd as my wacked out Te has no such problem.
Ok, lying... No, I don't lie. But sometimes, I will omit something to humor someone and get out of a situation. Like if I know for sure that an unpleasant conversation has no end in sight and I feel like gnawing my own foot off to escape... For instance, if someone is angry at me and says "You did x, y and z" and I feel that they are totally off base, I will acknowledge something in such a way that the person may believe that I am apologizing for the entire thing, unless they take the time to listen to my actual words. Which, in my experience, many people (especially NFPs) are not capable of doing. Often "I see why you would say that, and why that would make you upset" is mistaken for an apology when really it is just an acknowledgment of your mental state.8. Lying???? This one is really odd and just crossed my mind the other day. I was reading the catcher in the rye. Very often the kid would get stuck in these situations and then propose an idea, only to follow the thought with "that was a total lie, and I would never actually do that, but I dont know know why I said it" I wonder if as entps are growing into Fe sometimes it cuases them to blurt things out to soothe social discontent, to make others happy, but in reality they dont mean it or mean to follow up on it. Fe5-I would do anything to maintain my close relationships with others
This is one of my PET PEEVES offline:when people make assumptions about someone's dress as an indication of who they are and how much they are trying to impress others. So by your reasoning someone who buys their things at thrift shops can't possibly care about social recognition? What's the spending cutoff amount in your theory of the need for social recognition?
Also, I agree with Serengeti - I buy very expensive handbags, sunglasses and shoes because they are made well and will last. And I fucking HATE shopping. I want my purchase to be as timeless and well constructed as a Chanel suit. There are cheap throwaway things that I buy, but mainly when I recognize that this thing is just a fad and I won't wear again after the current season. So that's how I end up with quality items mixed with cheap shit.
More like I just don't want to be bothered and if I don't like you, you don't exist to me.
I guess I just like things to be happy and pleasant at all times. If something is a downer or draining, I tend to just avoid it.
I've never seen this in action, but I'll take your word for it. I can't imagine myself this way, though. I guess the females are different?.
Ok, lying... No, I don't lie. But sometimes, I will omit something to humor someone and get out of a situation. Like if I know for sure that an unpleasant conversation has no end in sight and I feel like gnawing my own foot off to escape... For instance, if someone is angry at me and says "You did x, y and z" and I feel that they are totally off base, I will acknowledge something in such a way that the person may believe that I am apologizing for the entire thing, unless they take the time to listen to my actual words. Which, in my experience, many people (especially NFPs) are not capable of doing. Often "I see why you would say that, and why that would make you upset" is mistaken for an apology when really it is just an acknowledgment of your mental state.
However, as for the Holden Caufield reference... yeah, I can see myself making empty promises to make someone feel better - but this is done very sparingly. This is something I do when I visit an elderly person and promise to visit more often, knowing full well I have no intention of doing so. But I think every person does this to some degree. And again, this is very rare - with me, at least.
sorry serengeti, no judgement implied, just observation. It isnt that these things are bad or good-just what I see. You are totally right concerning potential value of items and longevity. I have no Fe, thus am uncaring and unaware of what others think and I do not value quality of items. I would likely not wear pants to work if I didnt have to. I say "social recognition" but maybe a better term is "social expectations" concerning normality. Thus likely I am the outlier and the ENTPs are actually more normal with respect to this issue.
My ESTPs surround themselves with very nice things. I describe them as "shiny" people. They can be materialistic and value social expectations-again not judgement-just how they are. The boys spend more time on thier hair than me. I make fun of them for this.
My ENTPs seem to value intellectual recognition much, much more so-but they like to have physical/material signs of that intellectual recognition???? So they end up mixed up shiny?
Honestly boy EXTPs are much more noticable about this. But maybe this is like an NeTi practicality thing? i dunno, your brains, not mine... let me know what you think.
Comment 1- Is exclusion/avoidance a more precise term? In my mind I see Te control through overt dominance. Fe controls by threat or social exclusion/isolation. Either would have led to death in a group society where cooperation and inclusion were essential to survival. So behavior would have been effectively controlled via the threat of social exclusion-ie elimination of Fe social connectivities and subseqeunt mutual reciprocal exchange of resources.
Comment 3-yup only boys so far-men in thier 40s.
Comment 2- I have the "elephant in the room problem". If there is a problem I will very directly confront the issue. Te makes it very hard not to directly confront, resolve, plan and thus mentally I get to control the issue-otherwise I am left drained and confused, stressed as there is no resolution and the problem cycles in my brain. It works very well with Te users.
Maybe for an Fe user, that direct confrontation can come across as drama or emotionally unpleseant?? I dunno. My EXTPs do not directly confront. They are all very "nice" to each other. My best friend entp says the Fe totally allows her to control and calm groups of people. I know she is really stressed out when she gets very "pleasent".
I am actually working on an Fe mask of sorts to blend more with them. It makes me feel like a stepford wife, but the Fe doms and Auxs love me when I act this way.
This one is totally a recent guess-I could be way way off-but there was a thread awhile back about ENTPs and lying. It seemed odd as I thought none of mine did that, but I have had two friends I have since caught saying things just to keep me happy. I tend to call them on it.
Also the NFPs above-I think that is really what we want-affirmation and acknowledgement of our emotional state. (I just figured this out last week.
I have been using it to calm my other enfp coworker-it is amazing how easy it is) Once acknowledged, then we can become more rational and self evaluate.
I would likely not wear pants to work if I didnt have to. I say "social recognition" but maybe a better term is "social expectations" concerning normality. Thus likely I am the outlier and the ENTPs are actually more normal with respect to this issue.
This is possible, not everyone in a personality type are the same. people off all types can be insecure and need external validation. personally i could care less if people recognize me or not as long as they are fair about it. i don't feel the need to be the center of attention of get the pat on the back,especially in a work situation because I kind of see it as part of a team effort.. as long as we're all doing our part then, there's no need to spotlight anyone. i'm ok with working in the backgroundMy ENTPs seem to value intellectual recognition much, much more so-but they like to have physical/material signs of that intellectual recognition???? So they end up mixed up shiny?
Honestly boy EXTPs are much more noticable about this. But maybe this is like an NeTi practicality thing? i dunno, your brains, not mine... let me know what you think.
maybe I'm an atypical ENTP, but life experiences have made me a confronter. My expereince is that it's more efficient to speak your peace sooner rather than later and it's definitely better than hoping the other person will telepathically get what you mean. I'm not big on making things smooth solely for the sake of making them smooth. I'd rather confront the issue and get past it than let it just sit over people's heads. I also find that confronting sooner rather than later means that I'm not immediately starting out with guns a-blazing..Maybe for an Fe user, that direct confrontation can come across as drama or emotionally unpleseant?? I dunno. My EXTPs do not directly confront. They are all very "nice" to each other. My best friend entp says the Fe totally allows her to control and calm groups of people. I know she is really stressed out when she gets very "pleasent".
I am actually working on an Fe mask of sorts to blend more with them. It makes me feel like a stepford wife, but the Fe doms and Auxs love me when I act this way.
(I know that you want to feel special but) Nah, that's typical entp.maybe I'm an atypical ENTP, but life experiences have made me a confronter. My expereince is that it's more efficient to speak your peace sooner rather than later and it's definitely better than hoping the other person will telepathically get what you mean. I'm not big on making things smooth solely for the sake of making them smooth. I'd rather confront the issue and get past it than let it just sit over people's heads. I also find that confronting sooner rather than later means that I'm not immediately starting out with guns a-blazing..
Oh yeah and I'm definitely not going to say a lie just to make someone feel better. trust me, I'll tell you that I think your ass looks fat and your new hair cut is horrible IF you ask my opinion.
Oh yeah and I'm definitely not going to say a lie just to make someone feel better. trust me, I'll tell you that I think your ass looks fat and your new hair cut is horrible IF you ask my opinion.
Honestly, it's that direct confrontation is a complete pain in the ass. You know that when we're directly involved in conflict, we're not out to work out our differences, we're out to completely annihilate the person on the other side.
Honestly, it's that direct confrontation is a complete pain in the ass. You know that when we're directly involved in conflict, we're not out to work out our differences, we're out to completely annihilate the person on the other side. Needless to say, this leads to some other undesirable repercussions. Much better to just exclude the person from your hurricane of rage than it is to have everyone thinking how much of an asshole you are because you just nailed every single emotional vulnerability of a person in one screaming tirade.
However, when I am deliberately and consciously confronting someone, above and beyond my usual directness, I am out to destroy you. Which is why I often walk away. I've learned over the years that the punishment rarely fits the crime. Winning (and destroying my competition) at all costs is rarely worth the effort, or the subsequent damage control, over a topical argument.