[Fi] Define Fi for an SP

[wolfy]

I can't find any definitions of Fi that really ring true to me. Beyond me thinking 'yeah, I like people' Any suggestions?

A chocky fish to the best definition.

 

[Heinel]

Situational? (For me though I am very very selective)

Why don't you define yourself in terms of relational experiences?

 

[Quinlan]

This will be tough.

I think Fi tells us what is good, what is right and what is important. Fi wants to get to the heart of things.

 

[Seymour]

Fi respects the genuine and what reflects the value of the person and rejects the artificial and the externally imposed. Fi hates doing things because they are socially expected or required if they are not congruent with what the individual feels and values.

 

[Bamboo]

This will be tough.

I think Fi tells us what is good, what is right and what is important. Fi wants to get to the heart of things.

I guess Fi is like Ti, except Ti just tells you what's going on. What's good, or right, or important, is totally subjective and dependent on context.


........

Fi = Ti + value judgement

How's that for a definition? Or a building block?


Thinking out loud.

 

[Bamboo]

Or, I guess what I'm getting at is (at least based on what I understand about Ti/Fi), they both seem to based on a gut level reaction/understanding.

Both very much tuned in to personal experience.

 

[Quinlan]

Fi = Ti + value judgement

How's that for a definition?

Ok now define Ti.

 

[Quinlan]

I find the idea of internal judgement (Fi, Ti) interesting, are we like Js turned inside out? Are we planning, framing, organising, building (all the typical J stuff) in the "internal" world?

 

[wolfy]

Situational? (For me though I am very very selective)

Why don't you define yourself in terms of relational experiences?

What does it mean to define yourself in terms of relational experiences?
Define yourself by your experience with others?
I think I define myself in some ways by the experiences I am able to create and have with others. But there is more than that. Ultimately, I see myself as separate, working on the experience.

This will be tough.

I think Fi tells us what is good, what is right and what is important. Fi wants to get to the heart of things.

I can see this. I don't understand the part about getting to the heart of things.

Fi respects the genuine and what reflects the value of the person and rejects the artificial and the externally imposed. Fi hates doing things because they are socially expected or required if they are not congruent with what the individual feels and values.

I understand this as the definition of being an individual.

I guess Fi is like Ti, except Ti just tells you what's going on. What's good, or right, or important, is totally subjective and dependent on context.


........

Fi = Ti + value judgement

How's that for a definition? Or a building block?


Thinking out loud.

Think out loud, by all means.

I get what you are saying about Ti+value judgement. That makes more sense to me than a link with universal truths etc...that I see in some descriptions.

 

[Seymour]

I don't think so. I think Ti is about optimizing and making more precise in the moment. It's not step by step and breaking down into smaller pieces, chunking and planning the way Te is.

I think Fi is about harmonizing and assigning value and personal congruence in the moment. It's isn't pre-determined and stiff the way Fe can be.

I think they are actually different (but applying to the same domain) functions, not exactly the same function turned in or out. In a way, I think Fe and Fi, and Te and Ti conflict more than T and F do in the broader sense.

 

[wolfy]

I find the idea of internal judgement (Fi, Ti) interesting, are we like Js turned inside out? Are we planning, framing, organising, building (all the typical J stuff) in the "internal" world?

It is an interesting idea. I think aligning is a better word than planning. I feel I align myself and use tactics to achieve something when at my best. When at rest, I think of not much.

I feel I always need something to align myself with.

 

[Bamboo]

Ok now define Ti.

Good, shows you're paying attention.

Think out loud, by all means.

I get what you are saying about Ti+value judgement. That makes more sense to me than a link with universal truths etc...that I see in some descriptions.

While I'm tempted to go look up some definition of Ti, but I'll just say: a "sense" of understanding how something works, or how it operates. A basic understanding of something's nature.

Edit:
So, while Ti may inform you of how something works, Fi will inform you of how it works and what it means.

Wait, that doesn't make sense...

 

[wolfy]

I find Ti easier to understand than Fi. Fi seems lost in the Aether world.

 

[Bamboo]

Revised hypothesis:
Ok, let's just say there is some sort of gut level processing that is going on that is common to both Ti and Fi.

A sense of knowing, or experiencing. Let's call that "the gut"

So, Ti is "the gut" + a question as to objective meaning
and
Fi is "the gut" + a question as to subjective meaning

BOTH will inform you of how it works (if relevant) and what it means.

What it means is entirely dependent on the question you ask.
You look at a flower and ask: "what is this?" and your Ti will say it's a flower, and you'll start noticing things about how it grows, what it looks like etc.

You look at a flower and ask "is this valuable?" and your Fi will say "well, this is meaningful to me, or to other people?" and then you'll start noticing things about how it could be seen as having value.

 

[wolfy]

Revised hypothesis:
Ok, let's just say there is some sort of gut level processing that is going on that is common to both Ti and Fi.

A sense of knowing, or experiencing. Let's call that "the gut"

So, Ti is "the gut" + a question as to objective meaning
and
Fi is "the gut" + a question as to subjective meaning

So Fi is a gut level subjective understanding of things?
Maybe, a gut level interpretation of things is more accurate?

 

[wolfy]

There are some definitions here I can relate to...particularly

p. 366: "Introverted Feeling ... encourages a personal relationship to an evolving pattern, a will to gauge the situation by an experiential ideal. For example, if we use Introverted Feeling to make a good spaghetti sauce, we won't follow recipes or measure ingredients. We'll sample the sauce as we're making it, gauging its taste, smell, and texture by their ideal outcome and adjusting for circumstantial variables so the emerging pattern stays on track."

p. 367: "To invoke Introverted Feeling, we have to know the difference between a good outcome and a bad one--know with our senses, in our bones [on the basis of living, breathing, first-hand experience]."

p. 371: "An inner point of reference, one trained by personal experience. [Bypassing matters of social standing] to focus on the quintessentially human."

From this attitude, each living thing is completely unique, and has unique needs. Every living thing needs to express itself and grow in its unique way. None of this can be put into categories or measurements, at least not without blotting out that utter uniqueness of each living thing.

Fi leads IFPs to live a life based on empathy and harmony between self and others--and/or to see life as a never-ending conflict between souls that are intrinsically different and opposed. ISFPs typically seek out a space in which they can be completely and spontaneously themselves, following their artistic impulses without regard to social expectation or definition of any sort.

I have a hard time with the inner flame stuff.

 

[Halla74]

I have a hard time with the inner flame stuff.

Yeah, I hear you Bro. It's just not my M.O.

Have you ever heard the term "fuzzy logic?"

For example, if you have $125,000 to buy a small house, and you have three houses to choose from, all are 3 bedroom + 2 bath + 2 car garage, etc.

You go into house #1, it does nothing for you.
You go into house #2, it does nothing for you.
You go into house #3 - BINGO! You're home.

That's the example of "fuzzy logic" I've heard. I guess the same analogy could apply to selecting 1 of 3 sports cars, all of the same price. Something like that.

Is that Fi???

 

[wolfy]

Yeah, I hear you Bro. It's just not my M.O.

Have you ever heard the term "fuzzy logic?"

For example, if you have $125,000 to buy a small house, and you have three houses to choose from, all are 3 bedroom + 2 bath + 2 car garage, etc.

You go into house #1, it does nothing for you.
You go into house #2, it does nothing for you.
You go into house #3 - BINGO! You're home.

That's the example of "fuzzy logic" I've heard. I guess the same analogy could apply to selecting 1 of 3 sports cars, all of the same price. Something like that.

Is that Fi???

Sounds like Se plus some special sauce. I read a book on fuzzy logic once. I suppose that special sauce could be Ti or Fi.

 

[Quinlan]

I can see this. I don't understand the part about getting to the heart of things.

How I see it, it's basically identifying the vital essence of something.

For Fi it is assessing and understanding the essential value or worth contained in something (why we can be so stubborn when an important value is crossed).

For Ti it is assessing and understanding the essential truths contained in something (why they can get so stubborn about precise definitions and logical accuracies).

Fe and Te are more like blunt instruments and Fi and Ti are more precise (at least from my perspective).

 

[wolfy]

How I see it, it's basically identifying the vital essence of something.

For Fi it is assessing and understanding the essential value or worth contained in something (why we can be so stubborn when an important value is crossed).

I really don't understand what is meant by the vital essence. I can understand that I value things, people and experiences subjectively. To me that just seems being human.

It is this vital essence, this inner flame stuff that really throws me out.