Discover your values

[Arclight]

I didn't have it in school but I read the book, since it was an interesting perspective. I'm not sure about the order myself, but he writes that everyone is on multiple levels at the same time (not having all the security met while being mostly on level three, for example) so, I think that is why it seems to me like they are not in the same order than they are in my mind.

I would imagine for me that, self actualization would lead to esteem.. Which would then lead to love/belonging.. but then I guess that's where my "values" would come into play.

 

[wolfy]

Yeah, you're lucky there - I feel the same way if I'm asked to explain the promptings of intuition For those of us not as plugged into their F as you are, though, this has to begin as a laborious and academic process before it can blossom into anything like the natural value based judgements that people like you can so easily make in situations where logic is useless and people like me stand around feeling vulnerable and panicky.

Edit - Bloody typical though. Supposed to get T's talking about how to get in touch with their values, and so far only one T has responded amongst the F's that come to gloat! Except Night, but he doesn't count - he was just being a butt-munch

I'm not gloating! I actually wish I could list out my values. You'd think if I act from my values then I'd be able to list them at the drop of a hat. Then I could get some use from the whole thing. Yet that aspect of self help stuff is most difficult. It's easier to set goals and so forth than to look at values.

EDIT: I tried doing it at the drop of a hat and got

love
creativity
learning
skilfulness
adaptability

In some ways all five are the same thing. Or they blend together as one thing in my mind.

 

[Quinlan]

Control
Power
Discipline
Tradition
God




Just kidding...

 

[proximo]

Mostly it has to do with having a clear conscience, and not wanting to be a hypocrite.

I feel guilty when I lie because I want people to be honest with me.

And just because I know people are often dishonest with me, I don't believe that gives me the right to be dishonest.

It's related to personal integrity again, I guess.

I see. Integrity's apparently a very strong value for me too, though I don't personally see that the same way as you. But thanks for that, it's quite enlightening because you sound a lot like an ENFP I know, and you've given me a lightbulb moment (PING!) about something we're often at loggerheads about.

Anyway, I'm back from the quick dash with the dog and I've thought of another value: constructiveness. And that's helped me put my finger on why Wonka's reasoning about lying doesn't sound like something I'd relate to. I need to feel that what I'm doing is long-term constructive for the world at large, if possible. I think I'd feel that avoiding telling a lie that would lead to a greater long-term good, went *against* my conscience. To do that just to keep my slate clean as it were, would feel rather self-indulgent and precious, to me.

The type of honesty I prefer people to practice towards me has little to do with truth telling in that sense and more to do with honestly (i.e. sincerely) acting in my best interests, or at least, not deliberately acting against my interests. My valuing of freewill forces me to concede that people have a right to use their own best judgement to discharge any sort of trust I place in them, so I can't hold it against them if they see fit to do that by the use of a strataegic untruth, with sincere motives - to do so would offend my integrity!

So I guess that's another value I've discovered for myself: sincerity, meaning sincerity of intent and effort, in a sort of "ends justify the means" way that makes "telling fibs" a very minor offence. Though, that doesn't mean I think the ends always justify the means in any situation, generally.

So far I've got: authenticity, integrity, sincerity, freewill and constructiveness. I'm not completely sure about all of the order there, but at least I'm getting somewhere.

I think that, rather perversely, it's my valuing of authenticity that also forces me to cut Lying some slack. I just tried to explain that in words, but it got way too long, so I hit the backspace key. Something to do with Taoism and not denying the innate nature, and kids lying at very young ages without being taught it...

I'm not gloating!

Yeah I know, I was just teasing

EDIT: I tried doing it at the drop of a hat and got

love
creativity
learning
skilfulness
adaptability

In some ways all five are the same thing. Or they blend together as one thing in my mind.

Awesome. Adaptability can be my sixth one, totally Sixth in number that is, not priority. I haven't figured out the priorities yet. But since it's 2.30am for me, I'll have to stop this and go to bed. Just when I was starting to have fun! Gah!

Still no other T's posting. Revealing, no? Chickens, all of 'em!

 

[Sniffles]

Here's a visual example of my core values at work:
[youtube="qtcWlk3cLUQ"]Integrity in action[/youtube]

 

[Walking Tourist]

creativity, nonviolence, truth, beauty, generosity, kindness, nonjudgmental attitude

 

[BlackCat]

My values in no real order from that list-

Integrity
Freedom
Balance
Reason
Wisdom

Reasoning-

I absolutely have to have integrity. Other people I interact with have to have integrity as well.

I would hate to not have freedom. And with freedom comes other things on that list, like adventure, happiness, independence

Balance. I strive to maintain balance within myself. I also have a belief in karma somewhat. I just seek to be well rounded overall, from getting experience from life, being a good person but not being a pushover, etc.

Reason. I hate irrationality, and EVERYTHING absolutely must make sense that I do and that other people do in some way. It really irks me when it doesn't. I get confused, since I just assume that everyone is rational but they end up not being in a lot of cases.

Wisdom. I want to get wisened up, I want more experience in life, I want to be able to help people with my knowledge and experience in life. There are way too many reasons to list for this value.

 

[Polaris]

1. Love
2. Achievement
3. Originality
4. Self-expression
5. Independence

 

[Mole]

A discovery worth making

I think my three values collapse down to one - mutual dancing.

So this is the one thing that I consider is worth doing.

This is very handy as I can now devote all my resources to realising this one value.

 

[wolfy]

I think my three values collapse down to one - mutual dancing.

So this is the one thing that I consider is worth doing.

This is very handy as I can now devote all my resources to realising this one value.

That is a great discovery. I have the feeling all mine boil down to one thing, but I can't put my finger on it, yet.

 

[Mole]

That is a great discovery. I have the feeling all mine boil down to one thing, but I can't put my finger on it, yet.

Yes its good to have the feeling. For your feeling is waiting for the right moment to reveal itself to you.

And no doubt it will reveal itself to you most tactfully in tatemae while reserving its deeper feelings in honne which you no doubt will be able to guess.

But of course it realises that once it tells you that you will tell us. So naturally it is a little shy and reserved.

But your feeling is fond of you and only waiting for the right moment to declare itself.

I wonder what it is.

 

[Kalach]

Someone should tell that guy, you do not talk about Fight Club.

 

[Kingfisher]

i have a hard time deciding what my most important values are.
i would have an easier time of it if someone gave me a giant list of words, and said pick only 10, or pick only 5.

and different values are much more or less important to me at different times.

love
courage
those 2 jump out at me.


what is a word for "doing the right thing"? not exactly morality. more like active integrity, integrity in action.

 

[nolla]

The type of honesty I prefer people to practice towards me has little to do with truth telling in that sense and more to do with honestly (i.e. sincerely) acting in my best interests, or at least, not deliberately acting against my interests. My valuing of freewill forces me to concede that people have a right to use their own best judgement to discharge any sort of trust I place in them, so I can't hold it against them if they see fit to do that by the use of a strataegic untruth, with sincere motives - to do so would offend my integrity!

That's a good explanation of how I relate to lying.

I think that, rather perversely, it's my valuing of authenticity that also forces me to cut Lying some slack. I just tried to explain that in words, but it got way too long, so I hit the backspace key. Something to do with Taoism and not denying the innate nature, and kids lying at very young ages without being taught it...

I think I know what you mean. I had for a long time a rule for myself that I wouldn't fake. I could manage rather well living by the rule, but then I realized that it is like I have this rule against one of the "social tools". Faking and lying are tools used for different means, and while they are not something we brag about, they are something very normal and even essential for living with people.

And, what I then thought up was that when I fake for example in an embarrassing situation to make it seem less embarrassing (example, joke about the situations as if it was planned to go that way), it is my real response. It isn't like there is this other person behind the faking, it is me doing it. But, I draw the line somewhere along the motives. I don't plan faking things or lying. I think that another thing I value comes along to help here, spontaneity. I try to be as much in the moment as possible, then my person is the one doing things and not someone I have prepared in advance.

The thing that was bad about the not-faking rule was that it made me very selective of the people I was with. So selective no one could really be up to it eventually. And it made me think like I didn't fake at all, which is impossible, and I could feel superior because of this "achievement" in blinding myself.

 

[proximo]

Dude, you took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[nolla]

Dude, you took the words right out of my mouth!

Yeah, but without your description of lying with good intentions the thought wouldn't have popped up in my mind. I should have thought of it right away, instead of saying this:

Yeah, telling the truth always is just silly...

The idea was there, but it was in a form that could not be translated into anything that makes sense. It's like you enhance the side of me who actually thinks about this stuff instead of just throwing things out... We should form a since entity and we would rock this place.

 

[proximo]

we would rock this place.

Like, totally!

i have a hard time deciding what my most important values are.
i would have an easier time of it if someone gave me a giant list of words, and said pick only 10, or pick only 5.

Dude, the article linked in the OP... read it, or at least skim it! Although, welcome to the thread - before Kalach changed his type, you and Victor were the only T's with the balls to come in and face their F side!

what is a word for "doing the right thing"? not exactly morality. more like active integrity, integrity in action.

Duty?

 

[Cimarron]

It's just not something that's at the front of my mind. Values are probably most easily learned when someone violates them or puts them in jeopardy. So that's reactive instead of active... Actively identifying values is the difficult part, even though they're there.

Plus, don't you think they would kind of blend together?

 

[proximo]

It's just not something that's at the front of my mind. Values are probably most easily learned when someone violates them or puts them in jeopardy. So that's reactive instead of active... Actively identifying values is the difficult part, even though they're there.

Plus, don't you think they would kind of blend together?

I dunno. That's the point of the exercise - for T's who usually think like that, to try something different for a change and just see what comes of it. Why not give it a try anyway?

I've figured out that authenticity, sincerity, integrity, constructiveness, freewill and adaptability are my top priorities. I'm mulling it over for a bit, to figure out what order they go in and how they interplay with each other. Some of my posts above are where you can see some of that process externalised.

 

[Kingfisher]

thanks proximo.
this is really very interesting to me, defining your values. living by values is a big concern to me, but defining the "core" 5 is hard. but it strikes me as a very good and important thing to do. i don't know what my earlier post was about. i was stonewalling before, being unnecessarily stubborn. i have that tendency. embarrassing...

so i did it, i thought about it and distilled my values to the core 5.
Integrity
Action
Understanding
Restraint
Love

Duty?

duty is important to me, but that is not the word i was looking for. i was trying to define a concept in my mind of 'doing the right thing when it is not expected of you'. i realized it fits into integrity, it is integrity with courage.

I've figured out that authenticity, sincerity, integrity, constructiveness, freewill and adaptability are my top priorities. I'm mulling it over for a bit, to figure out what order they go in and how they interplay with each other.

can you describe authenticity and sincerity? how are they different to you?
authenticity is very important to me too, it is one of the things i wrote down and considered. but i realized, for me, authenticity follows from Integrity and Action. if i act on my integrity, authenticity will naturally follow/be the result.