worst type for the military

[Sniffles]

Depends on what role and what kind of military force we're talking here.

 

[NewEra]

Worst type? My opinion, it would probably be ESFP or ENFP. Best type would be ISTJ.

 

[zago]

Definitely INFP. Inferior Te will cause them to always be the one who fails. The INTP on average will do ok.

 

[Nighthawk]

Depends on what role and what kind of military force we're talking here.

That's a good consideration. Certainly if we need more adminstration of occupied territories, then a different type leader might excel in comparison to an army that is bent on continuous conquest. We cannot all be George Patton

 

[Sniffles]

That's a good consideration. Certainly if we need more adminstration of occupied territories, then a different type leader might excel in comparison to an army that is bent on continuous conquest. We cannot all be George Patton

Indeed. George Orwell gave a good comparison of Spanish Anarchist militias with the British Army in Homage to Catalonia - particularly how the former lacked the formal discipline of the latter. In the British Army, orders were blindly obeyed wheras you often had to explain why an order had to be obeyed to the men of the Spanish militias. Orwell noted that the Spainish approach actually worked better in the long-run.

Von Steuben made similar observations when training the American army during the Revolution. He wrote back to a friend in Prussia: "You say to your soldier, 'Do this,' and he does it; but I am obliged to say, 'This is the reason why you ought to do that' and then he does it."

Now this approach is far more compatible with a N outlook. I can certainly say this is so for me, cause I always like to know why I should be doing something. It actually makes more sense that way.

 

[Nighthawk]

Indeed. George Orwell gave a good comparison of Spanish Anarchist militias with the British Army in Homage to Catalonia - particularly how the former lacked the formal discipline of the latter. In the British Army, orders were blindly obeyed wheras you often had to explain why an order had to be obeyed to the men of the Spanish militias. Orwell noted that the Spainish approach actually worked better in the long-run.

We studied those two types in military school. The Germans called them Befehlstaktik (following orders) versus Auftragstaktik (understanding the mission). The former made for a very cohesive army, but the latter actually ended up working better because subordinates understood the mission and could still carry on when isolated or if their superiors were killed. During my time in the US Army we often followed Auftragstaktik. I'm not sure if that has changed since then.

 

[Sniffles]

Im not sure. I could ask my friend who served in Iraq.

 

[INTPness]

In high school I began to realize that there was something different about my personality. I now know that it was the fact that I was a young "INxx" wondering why I didn't fit in with the "ESxx" masses. I just didn't get them and they didn't get me. But, my military experience REALLY made that stand out. 2 years into the military, I thought that I had serious problems. I felt so much out of my element and so frustrated with the life I was living, that I just felt like I had some serious issues and that I may never figure out what they were.

Just imagine going to "ESTJ Disneyland" every single day for 4 years. At ESTJ Disneyland, you can't question the rules, you have to shut up and do it - and as others have mentioned, there are times when what you're doing makes zero sense.

It was a great experience that I also would not trade in. But, truth be told, it was at times - excruciating. Imagine asking an ESTJ/ESTP to sit at home and research the life work of people like Plato and Aristotle, and to write long, well thought out, grammatically correct essays about their lives. And to join a think tank and spend countless hours engaging in abstract thinking without any real, tangible production. These kinds of activities ALLLLL day. Every day. For 4 years. With 150 INTP's looking over your shoulder and saying, "You're not doing it right! You're not thinking creatively enough. You're just writing very basic, straightforward stuff."

OK, I'm exaggerating but the point remains. At times, it REALLY sucked. Somehow, I'm still glad I did it. And I did well. I just had to conform and really be someone I didn't want to be. It was not a natural fit at all.

 

[Mole]

In recent history, I have seen mostly SJ and SP officers rise to generalship. There used to be a leavening of NTs in there, ala' Ulysses S. Grant, Dwight Eisenhower, and such ... but that seems to be a thing of the past. I don't mean to leave out the NFs ... it's just that I've never run across an NF general in my studies or experiences.

As far as I know none of these officers has done a reliable and valid personality test administered by a professional. And my guess is neither do you.

Yet you speak with such confidence and precision about their personalities.

I can only conclude you are in the grip of a group fantasy called MBTI.

 

[hommefatal]

I would rather kill everyone involved in the military than join it.

 

[Nighthawk]

In high school I began to realize that there was something different about my personality. I now know that it was the fact that I was a young "INxx" wondering why I didn't fit in with the "ESxx" masses. I just didn't get them and they didn't get me. But, my military experience REALLY made that stand out. 2 years into the military, I thought that I had serious problems. I felt so much out of my element and so frustrated with the life I was living, that I just felt like I had some serious issues and that I may never figure out what they were.

Just imagine going to "ESTJ Disneyland" every single day for 4 years. At ESTJ Disneyland, you can't question the rules, you have to shut up and do it - and as others have mentioned, there are times when what you're doing makes zero sense.

It was a great experience that I also would not trade in. But, truth be told, it was at times - excruciating. Imagine asking an ESTJ/ESTP to sit at home and research the life work of people like Plato and Aristotle, and to write long, well thought out, grammatically correct essays about their lives. And to join a think tank and spend countless hours engaging in abstract thinking without any real, tangible production. These kinds of activities ALLLLL day. Every day. For 4 years. With 150 INTP's looking over your shoulder and saying, "You're not doing it right! You're not thinking creatively enough. You're just writing very basic, straightforward stuff."

OK, I'm exaggerating but the point remains. At times, it REALLY sucked. Somehow, I'm still glad I did it. And I did well. I just had to conform and really be someone I didn't want to be. It was not a natural fit at all.

I can definitely relate. I felt much the same way during my time in uniform.

 

[CrystalViolet]

Definitely INFP. Inferior Te will cause them to always be the one who fails. The INTP on average will do ok.

Here we go.....INFP's can't do anything because all they do is FEEL. Can't string a single logical thought together.
Not only is it insulting, it's old hat. Get some new material.

To every one else, carry on, this is interesting. Night hawk, I always find your posts interesting and informative.

 

[Fluffywolf]

OK, I'm exaggerating but the point remains. At times, it REALLY sucked. Somehow, I'm still glad I did it. And I did well. I just had to conform and really be someone I didn't want to be. It was not a natural fit at all.

Exactly, it might not be easy for an INTP. But we learn a lot from it and will learn to appreciate the experience.

And I think an INTP is perfectly capable of pulling through because of that.

 

[Nighthawk]

Night hawk, I always find your posts interesting and informative.

Thank you

 

[stigmatica]

I would rather kill everyone involved in the military than join it.

So does that make you a passefist for hating the military, or a war monger for wanting to kill everybody in it? -

Hmmm... So if I was at war with some country, all I need do is get them to draft you! Then you'd do all the work for me! Neat!

 

[swordpath]

I would rather kill everyone involved in the military than join it.

Appreciate it.

Maybe one day you'll understand the importance and necessity of the military.

 

[stigmatica]

Appreciate it.

Maybe one day you'll understand the importance and necessity of the military.

I would personally love to see the day when I don't see the importance and necessity of the military. Probably won't though. I don't think hommefatal was totally serious, though. ENFP and all. Sensitive subject that I don't won't to be serious about right now, myself... so :moonwalk:

 

[Nighthawk]

Appreciate it.

Maybe one day you'll understand the importance and necessity of the military.

I caught a fair amount of flak from being in the military ... spit on, flipped off, rocks thrown at me, and (of course) shot at. Often this was done by people who's country I was protecting with no desire to be there. Ironically, if they'd had a better military to manage their own defense, I wouldn't have had to be there. I'm not talking about countries where we were the invader, either ... rather allies. Caught a fair amount of crap from my own countrymen too though. It's a pretty thankless job.

 

[iamathousandapples]

Definitely INFP. Inferior Te will cause them to always be the one who fails. The INTP on average will do ok.

INTPs work in the Manhattan Project


Definitely INFPs.

 

[Into It]

xNFP, I can't decide which is worse, probably ENFP because they would be more likely to desert than take orders.

Edit: ENFP if it's a draft, INFP if it's voluntary.