[MBTI General] Why NFs think that they understand NTs ?

[JivinJeffJones]

Having INTPc flashbacks here.

 

[simulatedworld]

Really? I don't think I suffer from this. Even if I thought I knew someone well, I could never profess to know them better than they know themselves. Furthermore, I generally keep my insights to myself unless asked.

I don't recall seeing you do anything like this.

Of course it's not something all INFJs do...but most of the people I've observed this in are INFx, and more INFJ than INFP.

 

[entropie]

If you wouldnt post THAT long posts other people would actually be able to follow

 

[simulatedworld]

Guilty as charged. I'm really trying to be more aware of it and avoid falling into that pitfall. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't.



As for the OP. I think you've actually answered your question. The emphasis is on the word think. It means that people (from your point of view, NFs) get too involved and caught up in something they think aka imagine about others.

I can only speak for myself, but as I receive information about others, my mind starts to "solve the puzzle" and all the information goes through some kind of a filter and becomes altered in such a way that I'm only able to see IT, that is what I think i.e. imagine about others. Call me crazy

You're crazy.

 

[entropie]

You're crazy.

You mean that in a positive way I hope, otherwise I need to report you

 

[simulatedworld]

You mean that in a positive way I hope, otherwise I need to report you

yeah um, I meant CRAZY AWESOME

 

[entropie]

 

[sculpting]

AS,

Let me explain what I do. I dont know if it applies to others-it may or may not. This issue is really beyond just NTs, and seems more generic.

My brain is like a giant, Ne vacuum sucking up information around me and constantly connecting all the pieces together. A connects to B which connects to C and so on... It never seems to stop connecting and reconnecting trying to make recognizable patterns out of what information it perceives.

Maybe cause of the Fi, the info it finds neatest is info about people. I want to-I am driven to-understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. It's very OCD honestly. So for any given individual I will see behavorial characteristics, behavorial patterns and remember them. I do this endlessly, I cant stop, it is inherent in my brain.

Then eventually Ne begins to start connecting the same types of individuals-thanks to the handy dandy MBTI model-with the same patterns of behavior and looking for more global patterns, new underlying themes. Ne creates new models and new modes of connection. Again, I cant really stop it. Its like a motor in my brain, twisting and turning puzzle pieces endlessly.

I guess I could just not share but the connections are so neat and exciting for me, like toys and I want to see if they are anywhere near correct.

There are two potential areas for flaws-first the Ne connections may not be accurate-so once I observe something that seem to be repeated in myself or others as a potential connection-I try and test it-usually here-by asking others if they do or feel the same thing as I have observed. Sometimes it rings true and sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes I offend people without meaning too. I feel badly about this. Sometimes I offend as the connection is incorrect but sometimes I think I offend as it may be a bit too correct and hit sensitive points, close to the core of folks.

The next flaw-and this is the massive one-is judging the motivations or reasons why they are doing what they are doing (Fi) and then even judging if that's okay (Fe). This knee jerk response in enfps is fairly well known as being very flawed. This is very dangerous territory I think. Fi is highly individualized and can be way off in.

So the perception may be accurate but the understanding of motivation may be terribly wrong??

So anyways, this is what makes us try and figure others out, and NTs are just really interesting since they share the Ne/Ni.

 

[MrME]

The vast majority of my friends in my life have been NT. I had a helluva time figuring them out, until I found the MBTI. Now I understand them pretty well.

Why do you think NFs are unable to understand NTs?

 

[jenocyde]

I think there's a tendency for some people to project their feelings onto me because that's what they would feel if they were in my shoes. And when I assert that I do not feel that way at all, I am told that I am in denial or out of touch with my emotions.

 

[digesthisickness]

I think there's a tendency for some people to project their feelings onto me because that's what they would feel if they were in my shoes. And when I assert that I do not feel that way at all, I am told that I am in denial or out of touch with my emotions.

bingo. or covering up/lying.

 

[heart]

I see thinkers make just as many assumptions about motives and intentions, especially when dealing with feelers. Once they latch onto a belief about an intention or motive, they cannot be reasoned with.

Neither side has a monopoly on making assumptions about people.

 

[Ulaes]

I think there's a tendency for some people to project their feelings onto me because that's what they would feel if they were in my shoes. And when I assert that I do not feel that way at all, I am told that I am in denial or out of touch with my emotions.

yes, to me it seems like they are inventing my emotions and prosecuting me for them.


the type to understand you the best has got to be your own.

 

[Laurie]

That's so weird, I don't really assume people have emotions they are hiding. What would be the benefit? I like the way NT's come across, why would I want them to be different from how they are?

I know ENFP's on here sometimes say it about INTJ's but in my case it's just for fun. I do know INTJ's who are sensitive and sweet on the inside but that's really just what they show me.

 

[Amargith]

I get that this is a complaint many T's have, and yes, it does happen that F's do this. I do.

I try to verify first that I got it right though. And if they then tell me I'm wrong, I tend to take that on board and try not to push it. But experience has shown that often, later on, you're proven right. That the person was in fact just not in touch with their own emotions but was still 'suffering' from that emotion, though they were absolutely telling the truth when they felt you were wrong about their emotions. If this weren't the case, I would learn from my 'mistakes' and stop intuiting their feelings. Granted, sometimes we do definitely get it wrong. I mostly have that with people I've just met or haven't gotten to know that well yet or when I'm missing a large chunk of info still. I try to compensate for that by asking a lot of verifying questions (sometimes that's not appreciated though).

Also, coz you're an F, it's sometimes assumed that you're psychic about how T's feel. Without any real data at all and you get told that you should be more sensitve, at least, if you really are an F. And...the times that you relate to them just right, often go unnoticed by the other party as well, and kinda get taken for granted.

It's a delicate balance. People expect it from you when you're an F, but god forbid that you get it wrong, or that you tell them something they're not willing to face. On the other hand, stop relating to them, and you get sulked at for being insensitive. Do it right and often nobody picks up on the fact that that is in fact what you're doing.

So..give us the benefit of the doubt. We try. As for me (but I'm sure this is true for other F's as well), if you honestly tell me that you think I'm wrong, I will take it on board and drop the matter. But I will keep it in mind, and keep a look out for signs down the road. All I'm trying to do is draw your attention to things that jumped out at me. Hope you don't mind

Ps: exceptions to this rule are people that need the 'tough love'/ shock value to be kicked into action. Only do this though if I know you well enough

 

[Salomé]

NFs sometimes know what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling without my consciously expressing anything. They are highly sensitive to picking up on non-verbal cues, hence sometimes they are labelled "psychic" when really they are just extremely attentive in the interpersonal realm. In much the same way that animals can pick up on mood and atmosphere. But that doesn't mean they understand me or the qualia of what it is like to be me. Anymore than my dog does.

 

[Nonsensical]

Thank you for the awareness, Antisocial One. I am not going to lie, but I think I was being to judgemental and stereotypical with NTs. The fact of the matter is that they (you guys) are not so different than us NFs.

I'll remember this.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

But that doesn't mean they understand me or the qualia of what it is like to be me.

I find it difficult to imagine any NFs have ever suggested they do. Certainly not on this website, where I would've thought the transcendent uniqueness of the NT has already received adequate coverage. But evidently it hasn't.

 

[Amargith]

NFs sometimes know what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling without my consciously expressing anything. They are highly sensitive to picking up on non-verbal cues, hence sometimes they are labelled "psychic" when really they are just extremely attentive in the interpersonal realm. In much the same way that animals can pick up on mood and atmosphere. But that doesn't mean they understand me or the qualia of what it is like to be me. Anymore than my dog does.

True
That's when, after you've picked up on stuff, you ask. You give them a description of what you think might be going on and ask them to verify it. If you get it wrong, you ask additional questions and try again.

 

[Amargith]

I see thinkers make just as many assumptions about motives and intentions, especially when dealing with feelers. Once they latch onto a belief about an intention or motive, they cannot be reasoned with.

Neither side has a monopoly on making assumptions about people.

+1

Especially fun when they feel you're intuiting their emotions and then start assuming your motivation for doing so. They'll like come up with the most paranoid scenarios first *sigh*