[NT] ENTP vs ENTJ: who is more powerful

[ajblaise]

Where's *MY* ENTP?

You can always find a few of them panhandling in any large metro area.

 

[Night]

for your information ENTJs are extremely creative. and whats best abt it is they don't keep it in their heads, they implement their brilliant ideas in the best possible way. but they don't look as creative as ENTPs is because they don't find it USEFUL to express their ideas to others if they don't see a use for it.
i think this is because they don't have - Fe (not sure)

whereas ENTPs love expressing their ideas to others. this is like a hobby to them. and they are good at putting those ideas into other people's heads in the most interesting way.
i think this is because of - Fe (not sure)

I know -- I was summarizing popular traits, not offering exclusive behaviors.

 

[Kangirl]

You can always find a few of them panhandling in any large metro area.

I would rather have one present themselves to me with no effort on my part.

 

[EcK]

there's clearly a cultural bias on the definition of 'powerful' here.

So no accurate definition of what we're trying to define. No go on the scientific methodology.

this thread is so screwed.

 

[Lasting_Pain]

I will go with ENTJs, although non compare to the almighty INTP

 

[EcK]

I will go with ENTJs, although non compare to the almighty INTP[interrupted communication]

's propency for delusion
and that was the 'lets finish the sentence show'!

 

[Qre:us]

Medium Extreme:
1. the ENTJ, what he lacks in creativity, is made up for in insight* and planning
2. the ENTP, what he lacks in planning, is made up for in creativity/luck**

*How does a 'medium' of two types, comparatively, have the one who leads with T then fall on their N (ENTJ), be more insightful than one who leads with N then fall on their T (ENTP)?

**Are you equating creativity with luck? If so, I don't understand the inference. Also, how is luck, in its truest sense, in any way attributed to a 'type'?

You'd inevitably have to dig into what you really mean by 'luck', and, that would probably lead us towards discussion of opportunities (which, are created through insight and manipulation of a situation at hand - bending the environment to one's will versus bending to the environment). If this is so, I agree, the ENTP has the advantage, but, this would also negate your bolded 1.*

You gotta resolve that contradiction.

 

[yenom]

This poll is the best proof that forum deomcracy has failed.

 

[yenom]

There are some ruthless bloodthirsty ENTJ conquerors in history;

Genghis Khan
Napoleon
Hitler

But we also have our own mega-weapon of mass destruction:

Mao Zedong
Lenin

 

[Bougal]

Hitler was not an ENTJ, get it right.

And are you making the assertion that the group on the bottom are ENTJs too? If so, you are very wrong about Lenin.

 

[yenom]

Well, if you ENTJs are as invincible as you claim to be, let see you use your Mega Te to conquer the world. Try maximizing your J by 100% also.

I doubt anything would work, becuase conquering the world has nothing to do with Te.

 

[Qre:us]

Please define "powerful".

Strength? Physical strength? Type's irrelevent
Ability to complete projects... meet goals/milestones? ENTJ
Inventor, genius? ENTP

Yes, please...we should really define what we mean by 'power'. If we mean power over self, then, I think your bolded is very aptly applicable. The ENTJ has more control over directing self, than ENTP (this is the woe/joy of letting intuition lead versus thinking, which is also coupled with perceiving versus judging).

First list the strengths and weaknesses of each type

Then Power:

rated on: intelligence, charisma, flexibilty, leadership (people help me think of more criteria), contingency planning

Why are these chosen as mesurements of power (not that I'm disagreeing)? I'm asking really about then what you define as power, if these are the quantifications you are using. What, then, is power?

ENTJ, easily. Most aggressive, domineering, intimidating force I know of.

That's one medium of exhibiting power. Agression. Usually, though, this inevitably leads to a backlash effect, where people revolt being 'forced'....hence, it does nothing to make a commentary on a sustainable form of power (regardless of how long we see in history, there is always the backlash)

ENTJ, because intelligence doesn't matter all that much when you have the social power to manipulate everyone around you.

How are you concluding that ENTJ has more 'social power to manipulate others'? In terms of functions and their order? Esp. the word, social (Fe?)? I'd think if we go by that definition, it would be ENFJ.

It really depends on how you wish to define "power".

Semantics aside, I'd reckon the ENTJ has the greater inherent ability to lead. The ENTP is often renowned for his superior intellectual dexterity.

Leadership v. Creativity

Leadership is definitely an aspect of power, however, I don't think it encompasses the overarching definition of power, nor, does creativity, nor does a combination of the two.

I don't doubt that ENTPs have the talent to be powerful. I just think that they're motivated differently. ENTJs work consistently to be powerful. I don't feel the same edge from ENTPs.

Again, consistently being powerful,.. how? How are you defining power? V

I think power if the right word here. The ability to influence is important to ENTJs.

The bolded, yes, I think, this is getting dang close to what one could define as power. But, I don't think it's just mere influence.

It's also a combination of:

IF you mean getting things done to be the measure of power

It's a combination of influence with getting things done.

Or, to put it more simply: power is the ability (and to what degree) to bring about change.

 

[yenom]

Power

Or you can give a better definition for us , Qre;us

 

[Qre:us]

Power

Or you can give a better definition for us , Qre;us

Sorry man, I trust some sources more than other, and rather than direct copy/paste (also known as 'lack of thinking' and if done deliberately, plagiarism), I try to word it in my own way.

Here's one, and it comes with reference/citations....imagine.

Feminist Perspectives on Power (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

*section 1
[there are plenty of other sources, not just in that blurb of feminism - all within the same portal (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philsophy)]. Check with it.

Forgive me for trusting Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy over Wikipedia. It's probably the elitist in me (not).:rolli:

But...um, thanks for that commendable effort. *two thumbs up!!*

Btw, I'll even elaborate on what I mean by change - and broaden it to mean 'an action'/an act.

Oh yeah, EDIT: FAIL!

 

[Bougal]

Well, if you ENTJs are as invincible as you claim to be, let see you use your Mega Te to conquer the world. Try maximizing your J by 100% also.

I doubt anything would work, becuase conquering the world has nothing to do with Te.

Maybe we aren't as evil as people claim we are. Maybe we are not hell bent on taking over the world. We can be forceful at times, but that doesn't translate into a desire to control everything. We don't claim to have this power and we don't claim to be invincible, so quit making assumptions that are not sound. A healthy ENTJ is a good leader, and I think that is a fairly indisputable characteristic. A well rounded individual (quite possibly an ENTJ) that was capable of using both hard and soft power would have the highest likelihood of world domination, but sure a well rounded individual would have no interest in that kind of power. And Hitler was no ENTJ.

 

[yenom]

Well, we can be objective about this.

What are the advantages of having a mega Te and 100% J? Does that endowed you to have the power to be a god?

No offence, Bougal, but your type's power is a hype.

 

[nozflubber]

ENTPs are clearly more powerful due to their open-minded and clear-sighted openness to independant analysis, and because the ENTJ is typically so delusional as to how certain things are in their beliefs that their higher judgements are typically clouded. I have yet to meet an ENTJ that has properly restrained this vice.

 

[Bougal]

Well, we can be objective about this.

What are the advantages of having a mega Te and 100% J? Does that endowed you to have the power to be a god?

No offence, Bougal, but your type's power is a hype.

There you go again. I am nothing even close to being a god, and I don't claim to posses that power.

 

[Venom]

*How does a 'medium' of two types, comparatively, have the one who leads with T then fall on their N (ENTJ), be more insightful than one who leads with N then fall on their T (ENTP)?

**Are you equating creativity with luck? If so, I don't understand the inference. Also, how is luck, in its truest sense, in any way attributed to a 'type'?

let me resolve this for you:

1. the medium types, do infact fall more on their secondary functions, thats why they are more moderate.

2. I would definitely equate Ni with insight more than I would equate Ne with insight (and before you get pissy, ENTPs have many other talents).

3. One who has no plan, is more at the whim of luck. ENTPs have such an ability to roll with whatever (creative way of 'living'), that it almost doesnt matter what happens, they will make it look "lucky". This is why being creative can often look like luck. Its like how random mutations can be selected for adaptations that appear very 'planned and adaptive'.

4. I would bet that EPs probably would rate themselves as being luckier than other types would, yes.

Or, to put it more simply: power is the ability (and to what degree) to bring about change.

OR, its the ability to move energy per unit of time

(or more simple, work/t)

 

[Venom]

ENTPs are clearly more powerful due to their open-minded and clear-sighted openness to independant analysis, and because the ENTJ is typically so delusional as to how certain things are in their beliefs that their higher judgements are typically clouded. I have yet to meet an ENTJ that has properly restrained this vice.

pleasure to meet you :hi: