[MBTI General] ESTJ vs. ISTJ

[NewEra]

I don't know, maybe I'm more fun-loving than usual for an ISTJ. I tend to not work as hard, and do things that I like.

 

[d@v3]

I don't know, maybe I'm more fun-loving than usual for an ISTJ. I tend to not work as hard, and do things that I like.

Yes, I'm usually a slacker when it comes to school work. I would much rather have fun- whatever that may be.

 

[raz]

ESTJs are more focused on managing things around them, rather than focusing on the details of the inner workings of things. They're amazing in management. The only thing that might hinder them in that field is lack of feeling, but the a damn good ESTJ can make up for it with understanding how to run things and knowing the rules.

 

[AOA]

I think ISTJs are more awesome than ESTJs - something about them makes me feel great.

 

[NewEra]

Yes, I'm usually a slacker when it comes to school work. I would much rather have fun- whatever that may be.

Yeah, I don't like how the description of ISTJ is thorough, responsible, and dependable. It's not accurate, because I'm none of them.

 

[Bougal]

I enjoy ISTJs for the most part, but I don't mix too well with ESTJs.

 

[Tamske]

I don't really know any ISTJs, but my sister rarely ever relaxes, as in, SHE IS ALWAYS DOING SOMETHING!!!

She gets more "done" in a day than I do in a couple of months, for realz.

How are we related!?!?

?
My E(I?)STJ husband is very often relaxed. I'm not. I'm the one always doing something. I wish I could abolish sleep and eating, because I don't want to lose time in which I can play or write or work on my projects. I always thought the SJs work during work time and relax during free time; while NPs try to plan their free time during work time so that they don't lose a single minute of time in which they could be doing everything they want. I'm totally frustrated if I'm tired from work... I longed for my free time the whole day and now I can't do anything! Frustrating!! Why does work have to be so energy consuming?

 

[WickedQueen]

My sister is ESTJ. We get along just fine as long as I:

1. don't oppose her point of view

If we see things differently, which 90% of the time we usually do, we will end up arguing until I concede, don't care, or leave. Once she believes she's right, she will not let up and she MUST have the last word.

2. Don't try to convince her about anything

Plain and simple because it won't happen. It's her way, end of story. (Unless it can be proved otherwise with reason that SHE deems worthy)

Yeah, that's what I do. I'm very opinionated, I guess. Anyone who tried to convince me must have stronger facts than mine.

Meanwhile, my ESTJ sister is in the family room on the computer posting her new pics and I told my (IsFP) sister that I was going to go fuck with her and went in the adjoining room and gave her an unsuspecting hug, which she responded with a violent flinch and a terse yet slightly joking reprimand, "Don't touch me!!!"

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!

That is my ESTJ sister for ya!!!

Sooooooooo full of

I can relate with your sister. LOL. Aren't we lovely like that?

 

[Salt n' pepper]

I enjoy ISTJs for the most part, but I don't mix too well with ESTJs.

I came here to say something like this. Although I get along great with ESTJs that share my vision, but I can imagine the opposite effect if we didn't. My kid sister is ESTJ, it's a smooth ride when we are in agreement, but a horrible car crash when we don't. I think the ISTJ would be easier to handle if we didn't get along.

 

[Donna Cecilia]

My oldest friend is an ESTJ (go figure) and my brother is an ISTJ. I only have two IRL examples to compare, but I have observed some differences.

First the similarities:
- both like to be in charge and have risen to leadership positions in their occupations
- both tend to be more traditional and "rules" oriented
- both are organized with an air of no-nonsense competence about them
- both are *the* go-to people in a crisis

The I is very serious, controlled, and somewhat controlling. He suffers from hypertension and sometimes seems on the brink of blowing a gasket. His wife (ESFJ) and her friends call him "the male Martha Stewart" because everything has to be *perfect*. He is very protective of his family and his family space, even against his own siblings. (now my older brother the istp is a bit of reckless and loose cannon; but me (infp)? I'm perfectly harmless ).

The E cannot be alone for long periods of time. She craves company. She can move to a new city not knowing anyone and within a couple of weeks she'll be in a bookclub, and will have skating buddies, diving buddies, camping and hiking buddies, and watching football down at the pub buddies. Are these folks close friends? Of course not, but she can walk into a roomful of strangers and manage to find someone to talk to at length about anything. Every time. I used to envy this but now it just amuses me, exhausting as it is.

PS - Neither of them seem to enjoy the internet very much.

As for me, the only ESTJ I know personally is my Grandmother, and, form interacting with ESTJs on this board, the main difference I notice is they are more "human" than ISTJ, that means, more in touch with people´s feelings, willing to help, while the ISTJs would see crying babies or incompetent fools instead of a person who needs affection or help.

We both like to be in charge, but the ISTJs, in most cases, are put into positions of leadership without seeking for them.

By the way, I love Martha Stewart and suffer from high-blood pressure.

And all friends comes to me in a crisis, but not looking for a shoulder to cry on: to get impersonal, objective opinion and advice, to bring them "back to Earth", and help them putting their feelings aside and see the problem as it is. If they want a shoulder to cry on, they would better seek an ESTJ.

I love Internet. I can get study manuals for free, and I won´t be seen as a freak if I do little to no talk at all.

 

[JocktheMotie]

As for me, the only ESTJ I know personally is my Grandmother, and, form interacting with ESTJs on this board, the main difference I notice is they are more "human" than ISTJ, that means, more in touch with people´s feelings, willing to help, while the ISTJs would see crying babies or incompetent fools instead of a person who needs affection or help.

Hah, this is a good way of putting it. I've definitely seen this.

I have a good amount of great STJs around me, so I don't have the negative associations that most do. Plus, it probably helps that I don't turn into a passive aggressive weakling with no backbone around them either *eyes rest of the forum*

GF- ESTJ
Dad and Sis-ISTJ

The first obvious difference is the degree of socialization. GF is the quintessential social butterfly and she will talk to a wall. Dad and Sis have lower thresholds for conversation out of their existing social circle.

Second, is priority. Dad and Sis have an extreme tendency to get their environment, or get into an environment, that is as comfortable as possible. For the GF, this tendency is largely secondary and is only pursued as long as "things to be corrected" or "tasks to be performed" in the environment are completed or in the process of being completed. Dad and Sis are content to do nothing and be cozy, GF is not.

Third, obstinance. I actually find the ISTJs to be more "dug in" than ESTJs. For the ESTJs, Si is in support, not in control, so essentially I've found that ESTJs use it a lot to simply discourage time-wasting exploratory endeavors. They are still logical beings, and as such, far easier to convince to your viewpoint provided the structure of your thought is sound and your reasoning proper. With ISTJs, the final stop is their personal experience. Far harder to change and screw around with.

Just thinking out loud. Call me on BS if you see it.

 

[mrcockburn]

ESTJs and ISTJs do appear different to me. ESTJs, ironically, are much easier to get along with imho. I say "ironically" because as an NP, SJs are my opposite, and you'd think an ESJ would be loud about it too.

But, no. The ESTJs I've encountered are usually happy to hash out a plan with reason, logic, which they then execute.

ISTJs on the hand, can be nasty little stinkers - in my experience working and schooling with them. Very anal, brooding, rigid, and not even willing to actually talk through their reasoning. Just kind of like, "It's right, because the professor/textbook/boss said so. Be quiet and let me crunch the numbers we were told to crunch in the way we were told to. And just let me write, your handwriting is too sloppy."

And I notice a lot of them regularly eat bologna sandwiches... just an observation. Never mind.

 

[EJCC]

Hah, this is a good way of putting it. I've definitely seen this.

I have a good amount of great STJs around me, so I don't have the negative associations that most do. Plus, it probably helps that I don't turn into a passive aggressive weakling with no backbone around them either *eyes rest of the forum*

GF- ESTJ
Dad and Sis-ISTJ

The first obvious difference is the degree of socialization. GF is the quintessential social butterfly and she will talk to a wall. Dad and Sis have lower thresholds for conversation out of their existing social circle.

Second, is priority. Dad and Sis have an extreme tendency to get their environment, or get into an environment, that is as comfortable as possible. For the GF, this tendency is largely secondary and is only pursued as long as "things to be corrected" or "tasks to be performed" in the environment are completed or in the process of being completed. Dad and Sis are content to do nothing and be cozy, GF is not.

Third, obstinance. I actually find the ISTJs to be more "dug in" than ESTJs. For the ESTJs, Si is in support, not in control, so essentially I've found that ESTJs use it a lot to simply discourage time-wasting exploratory endeavors. They are still logical beings, and as such, far easier to convince to your viewpoint provided the structure of your thought is sound and your reasoning proper. With ISTJs, the final stop is their personal experience. Far harder to change and screw around with.

Just thinking out loud. Call me on BS if you see it.

I'd say you're pretty much entirely correct. +1!

Points two and three especially resonate with me. I have a hard time "relaxing" unless it's as a reward for completing a task, and I'd like to think that, given enough evidence to the contrary, I could abandon even the most deeply held beliefs.

 

[raz]

ISTJs and ESTJs both utilize all of the tools at their disposal, quickly understand technical items and readily look for scientific/logical tools to be used. The difference is an ISTJ actually respects who made the tools/theories and where they came from.

 

[anii]

And all friends comes to me in a crisis, but not looking for a shoulder to cry on: to get impersonal, objective opinion and advice, to bring them "back to Earth", and help them putting their feelings aside and see the problem as it is.

That's' correct. They're the ones you want around if the car breaks down or you've fallen down a well.

 

[wildcat]

My sister is ESTJ. We get along just fine as long as I:

1. don't oppose her point of view

If we see things differently, which 90% of the time we usually do, we will end up arguing until I concede, don't care, or leave. Once she believes she's right, she will not let up and she MUST have the last word.

2. Don't try to convince her about anything

Plain and simple because it won't happen. It's her way, end of story. (Unless it can be proved otherwise with reason that SHE deems worthy)

My ISTJ friend and hardly ever argue because I guess even though he might be as rigid in his opinions or way of doing things he doesn't try to push them on me or he doesn't express them as vehemently. I don't know if it's because he's an introvert or because he doesn't feel comfortable enough to be that way, yet.

I noticed major similarities and contrasts between the way her and my ISTJ friend get things done. Both will not do anything without analyzing it to death. But my sister does this out loud. I can sit there and she will think out loud for an hour or two about whether she should buy something, do something, eat something, etc or not. My ISTJ friend will just sit quietly and (seemingly) randomly he will finally tell me what he's concluded about something we talked about hours or days before. It's like I get the last paragraph to whatever he's been thinking, with my sister i get the whole story.

My sister will not do anything if she can't predict the outcome favorably, and she's pretty pessimistic, like my friend. Except my sister will tell me why, and my friend will just tell me the answer.

I've noticed that in social situations where she doesn't know anyone she's sometimes shy or quiet, but people easily misinterpret that as being stuck up or rude mostly because of her facial expression or her conversation is kind distant. My ISTJ has told me that people read him wrong all the time. The difference between them is that my sister wants people to know that she isn't being mean, aloof, whatever. On the other hand my friend prefers for people not to know that he might be really feeling embarrassed, shy, nervous, etc.

My point in this post is that I find it interesting how similar they both seem, but what a difference the E seems to make. Out of the two the ISTJ is easier to get along with. If my sister wasn't my sister I don't think we would get along as friends. I would feel like I'm being bossed around.

Compliance is not about push. A short cut is.
The ESTJs follow the idea of the book only.
The ISTJs follow the book to the letter.

Read Caine Mutiny.
Two captains in succession.
The STJ paradigm.