Handwriting & Cursive Fading?

[Athenian200]

Funny... I would have thought INTJ will be more robot-like and be less concern about aesthetics than INFJ.

Is cursive the most efficient means of writing on paper? You're used to what you're used to. I think over time each of us comes to our own form of letters. I have to disagree that a computer and keyboard should replace pen and paper though. The active movement of a pen against a page is very useful in learning. The more movement/more active you are in studying something, the better you retain it. To think the next generation will not be able to freely recall letters and words but must instead rely on recognizing keys on the keyboard... What happens if you're stranded without technology? It's not a pleasant thought. You can't even doodle a map on the ground with a stick for god's sake! That's worse than a helpless chick.

The cycle to me always moves forward... and the most adaptive ideas/technology/people move forward with it. I agree with that. I just think it might be better if you consider the full ramification of what you're suggesting first.

Survival of the fittest... one person can use a pen and write, the other needs to have a computer, keyboard & printer... it seems rather obvious to me.

Well, what about people who can do both? Are the advantages of handwriting so great that people should be pressured to handwrite everything instead of typing it? I just think it's ridiculous to say that people should be compelled to handwrite whether they want to or not because of some esoteric thing they'll gain from it.

I just want to voice my disagreement with the people who would assert that what might be lost here negates any advantages that can be had from having the option of typing things up, and that that option should thus be taken away in many situations.

 

[ajblaise]

I'm still bitter from teachers in the 3rd grade trying to get me to write in cursive, and I begrudgingly half-learned it enough to get by. I was/am perfectly fine with print.

I say we teach kids basic handwriting then we get those little fingers on the keyboard.

 

[Anja]

I think that's the common sense approach that we will be taking, aj. If there are any schools left to teach basic skills in the future.

I see little self-determination in the youngest generation to do anything which requires self-discipline and patience. The world is moving too fast now.

An aside. I was watching a fascinating video last night on Utube. It was probably about forty minutes long and the author was requesting comments. One of the comments was a complaint about someone feeling offended that they were asked to take precious time to watch the video! Heh.

Well, at least they had time to type a complaint.

It will be interestng to see how we can communicate more efficiently without losing some of our useful human traits. A challenge for you all!

You Twenties and Thirties are going to have your hands full convincing your young to apply themselves.

That last sentence is secretly known as The Curse of the Ancients.

 

[ajblaise]

I think that's the common sense approach that we will be taking, aj. If there are any schools left to teach basic skills in the future.

It won't be long until computer skills become the new basics.

 

[Randomnity]

Well, what about people who can do both? Are the advantages of handwriting so great that people should be pressured to handwrite everything instead of typing it? I just think it's ridiculous to say that people should be compelled to handwrite whether they want to or not because of some esoteric thing they'll gain from it.

I just want to voice my disagreement with the people who would assert that what might be lost here negates any advantages that can be had from having the option of typing things up, and that that option should thus be taken away in many situations.

Strawman. Who's compelled to handwrite anything these days? Elementary school doesn't count, they make you handwrite then so you can learn how...then when you're older you can choose for yourself, as all of us have.

Handwriting is a useful skill to have for when you have no computer and you need to write quickly (eg taking rapid notes while a prof rambles on quickly, if you aren't fortunate enough to have a reliable laptop). Cursive is much faster than printing, assuming you're trying to write legibly and you're reasonably proficient at both. I would be at a huge disadvantage trying to take notes now if I hadn't been forced as a child to learn writing. (even though I type my notes later, my laptop keeps dying so I can't rely on it and sometimes have to write)

At my university you aren't allowed to handwrite anything (other than exams/etc obviously). Easier to read typing.

 

[Quinlan]

I will look forward to the day when the youth of today lament the loss of text speak, "In my day we wrote with a beautiful mixture of letters and numbers, kids these days with their telepathic brain implants wouldn't know their rs frm thr Lb0s..."

 

[miss fortune]

*sigh* why is it that people are so against doing something more efficiently?

People will learn to print quicker by adapting it to thier own means if that's all they learned to do by hand- my printing is A LOT faster than my cursive ever was. People are adaptable, that's what they do! Cursive was merely somebody else's version of quick printing anyways- if everyone's too much of an idiot to come up with something that works for them they kind of deserve to fall behind in class

Cursive isn't the same as architecture and art necissarily- it's more of a functional thing by purpose than an artistic thing- if you say that cursive is an art, then print is an art anyways and there's nothing to be concerned with! Those who are interested in the "art" of cursive handwriting can study it just like people study painting and calligraphy.

Just because some people think that it's nice doesn't mean that its necissarily more practical, efficient or better

 

[nightning]

Well, what about people who can do both? Are the advantages of handwriting so great that people should be pressured to handwrite everything instead of typing it? I just think it's ridiculous to say that people should be compelled to handwrite whether they want to or not because of some esoteric thing they'll gain from it.

I just want to voice my disagreement with the people who would assert that what might be lost here negates any advantages that can be had from having the option of typing things up, and that that option should thus be taken away in many situations.

Understood your view point. I just see so many cases in which handwriting is quicker than typing. If it's only a brief note... page or two... it's easier writing it out in a notebook than to open up the computer, type it up and print it.

Strawman. Who's compelled to handwrite anything these days? Elementary school doesn't count, they make you handwrite then so you can learn how...then when you're older you can choose for yourself, as all of us have.

Handwriting is a useful skill to have for when you have no computer and you need to write quickly (eg taking rapid notes while a prof rambles on quickly, if you aren't fortunate enough to have a reliable laptop). Cursive is much faster than printing, assuming you're trying to write legibly and you're reasonably proficient at both. I would be at a huge disadvantage trying to take notes now if I hadn't been forced as a child to learn writing. (even though I type my notes later, my laptop keeps dying so I can't rely on it and sometimes have to write)

Hah... here's where computer note taking in class fails for me. My undergrad experience with science & mathematics lecture is that profs frequently use diagrams, figures and equations in lectures. Non of these are easily imported into a document. Hand drawing them on paper and putting annotations on the side is so much easier.

However due to the nature of the process, my writing is a half and half hybrid of cursive and print. Legible for myself... questionable for others.

At my university you aren't allowed to handwrite anything (other than exams/etc obviously). Easier to read typing.[/QUOT]

*sigh* why is it that people are so against doing something more efficiently?

I think we should divide up the topic as two separate streams which they clearly are...

1. efficiency for rapid note taking
In this case, the form of the writing doesn't matter... then yes, print, write cursive... come up with your own short hand... type... whatever floats your boat. The bottom-line has always been getting it done quickly but still maintaining legibility.

In this case is there a reason to teach kids to handwrite? Only to show them this style is an option. However unless you learned it well, you can't compare it to another process... Just like for my father who've never really practiced keyboarding... He types with 3 fingers... which means he writes faster than he types. Can you just say then typing on a computer is inefficient in this case? No, because you need to learn how to do it first before you can select the method that works best for you. That's why I think kids should be taught. As to the form... whether it's the "classical" cursive style or the so call "italics" I couldn't care less.

2. Cursive writing as artistic form
Print lettering... or what they call on serif and san serif fonts (typography) can be an art form. For example, the weight of the characters, kerning, line height, white space... BUT you wouldn't know to appreciate it, unless you pay attention to the details. Should we not teach art appreciation to kids? Should we not have them practice hand/eye coordination in terms of precise pen movement? I think we should...

The Chinese has always stressed upon "penmanship"... writing with ink and brush. It's not just for "neat" writing... there's also the stress on controlled movement of the brush, applying the correct amount of force in a particular way to achieve the stroke. A balance in everything. The idea of teaching brush writing was to extend it to life in general. As a kid, I hated it all because I was horrible at it. But now that I look back at it, I definitely see why we were taught.

 

[miss fortune]

my point- if it's an art why not teach it in art class instead of in normal class, where you're taking time away from learning other stuff too? (there's already insufficient time to teach all that's required to be taught in a lot of elementary school classes)

 

[disregard]

I used to exchange letters with my best friend all the time from across the country. The thing about letters is that you know that it took quite a bit of effort for them to do it, and they did it because it was important to them, so it's impressive.

And I don't have a cell phone. I have a group of friends that I meet with several times a week at the beach about a half an hour before sunset. No one ever confirms via communication that the others will be there... it's just a tradition, and everyone's always there. And you really build a sense of respect for and trust in someone when they prove to be that dependable.

I am just a bit of a romantic, and I find the idea of doing social things the old fashioned way, or the less easy way to be very attractive.

 

[Athenian200]

Understood your view point. I just see so many cases in which handwriting is quicker than typing. If it's only a brief note... page or two... it's easier writing it out in a notebook than to open up the computer, type it up and print it.

Okay, and now I finally get your viewpoint. I agree with you there. I had been thinking about something much longer.

 

[Anja]

It won't be long until computer skills become the new basics.

I'm wondering what will happen when the next generation comes along and complains that learning how to use a keyboard takes too much time and effort!

 

[Anja]

I will look forward to the day when the youth of today lament the loss of text speak, "In my day we wrote with a beautiful mixture of letters and numbers, kids these days with their telepathic brain implants wouldn't know their rs frm thr Lb0s..."

Haha. You beat me to it!

And just wait until they call you an old Fuddyduddy. Man, that's gonna sting the first time around.

 

[Anja]

*sigh* why is it that people are so against doing something more efficiently?

Did you take time to read every post here, Whatever? If so, I'm wondering why you still see this as an argument against keyboarding.

 

[miss fortune]

Did you take time to read every post here, Whatever? If so, I'm wondering why you still see this as an argument against keyboarding.

I did- and my wondering is why cursive is forced upon unwilling people in the first place!

it just seems like a bad idea to me, that's all.....

 

[Quinlan]

Haha. You beat me to it!

And just wait until they call you an old Fuddyduddy. Man, that's gonna sting the first time around.

I'll kick them up the bum and tell them to respect their elders and that when I was young I would never have thought of such a thing, that back around the turn of the century people were always kind and respectful to each other and the education system was perfect (oh yeah and we knew the meaning of hard work, no house robots for us!).

That should about do it.

 

[Erudur]

I'm another poor performer in the handwriting arena (the only "C" I ever got was in penmanship). I write left handed but do most else right handed, so there is probably some dexterity issues that added to the challenge. I also write very fast - I hate trying to get my hands to catch up to my thoughts.

I do MORE writing via computer these days. But I still maintain appreciation for handwriting as a tool for really quick, short, and portable notes. I also agree with the OP contention that there are many subtle and multifaceted characteristics communicated in hand writing that do not exist in typing.

I read some books on handwriting analysis. It is stunning how many definable personality traits are displayed in handwriting. In addition, there are many pathologies that are displayed in handwriting.

I also read a book that explored the idea that if pathologies (or negative traits) can be displayed in handwriting, there may be a theraputic effect by practicing writing and eliminating the characteristics related to negative traits and integrating characteristics related to positive traits.

I spent some time doing this out of curiosity as kind of a self-therapy. I enjoyed it, and I think it had a positive effect. I suppose the effect may have been due to my making a concerted effort to recognize and modify personality traits. But changing my handwriting may have contributed too.

Here's the link for those interested.

Amazon.com: Your Handwriting Can Change Your Life!: Vimala Rodgers: Books

 

[Anja]

They made me take chemistry. I don't know why they forced it on me. I have no use for it and I didn't like doing it. Was that ever dumb!

Odd how well-rounded my education turned out to be. . .

More seriously, it is true that they have too many things to teach in elementary these days. That's because they're having to teach children the basic things they should be learning at home and aren't. Like morality (Eekers on that one) and courtesy and other things the parents are tired of working all day then trying to "force" upon their children hoping they'll grow up with a llittle civility other than just being skilled cell-phone communicating creatures.

I was at "The Nutcracker" over Christmas and a twenty-something in front of me spent the time using his cell to stay in touch with his buds. Strange behavior indeed. Sumpin wrong with this picture. . .

 

[Eldanen]

They made me take chemistry. I don't know why they forced it on me. I have no use for it and I didn't like doing it. Was that ever dumb!

Odd how well-rounded my education turned out to be. . .

More seriously, it is true that they have too many things to teach in elementary these days. That's because they're having to teach children the basic things they should be learning at home and aren't. Like morality (Eekers on that one) and courtesy and other things the parents are tired of working all day then trying to "force" upon their children hoping they'll grow up with a llittle civility other than just being skilled cell-phone communicating creatures.

I was at "The Nutcracker" over Christmas and a twenty-something in front of me spent the time using his cell to stay in touch with his buds. Strange behavior indeed. Sumpin wrong with this picture. . .

I'm just glad that I won't be a kid during the time when all this backlashes and parents start reigning their kids in again, hahaha!

 

[ajblaise]

I'm wondering what will happen when the next generation comes along and complains that learning how to use a keyboard takes too much time and effort!

Well, life has been getting more and more ergonomically friendly as time goes on, but I think that's a good thing and that it improves quality-of-life.