Joseph Stalin

[wildcat]

Stalin admired Hitler in the beginning.
He said: Here is a man I can work with.
Hitler was a fellow EJ.
Then came the Barbarossa. An act of an irrational man.
Stalin could not get it. He cracked.
Hitler had failed him.

Hitler was not a T.
He was not even an S.

Such things happen.

 

[Cimarron]

Stalin admired Hitler in the beginning.
He said: Here is a man I can work with.
Hitler was a fellow EJ.
Then came the Barbarossa. An act of an irrational man.
Stalin could not get it. He cracked.
Hitler had failed him.

Hitler was not a T.
He was not even an S.

Such things happen.

The tale of two lovers torn! It's so dramatic! Good discussion here.

 

[Sniffles]

He followed no bullshit type of approach: "Says here he studied economics in Sorbonne before the revolution. Shoot him, and send his family to the gulag for re-education"

You do know that his habit of going after the families was a result of his Georgian upbringing right? Family feuds were a common thing in traditional Georgian society, and if you took action against an enemy it was often customary to take action against their families as well - or else their descendents would later take revenge against you.

Stalin's skills as a political leader were well tesified to by many, including Western leaders during WWII.

I find it hard to believe that Stalin was ESTJ or even ISTJ. This is particularly because of the numerous testimonies to the fact that Stalin had a significant grasp of grand strategy. Winston Churchill even remarked in his memoirs about WWII of how during a meeting with Stalin in 1942, after informing about the Allied invasion of North Africa; Stalin immediately understood the importance of the operation and explained four main reasons why.

As Churchill remarked: "I was deeply impressed with this remarkable statement. It showed the Russian Dictator's swift and complete mastery of a problem hitherto novel to him. Very few people could have comprehended in so few minutes the reasons which we had all so long been wrestling with for months. He saw it all in a flash."
--cited in Stalin and His Generals: Soviet Military Memoirs of World War II, pg.35

Not only was Stalin quite capable and competent in grand strategy, but also in detailed tactical matters as well. It was largely in operational matters that he lacked skill in, as was demonstrated in his poor handling of the defense of Kiev in 1941 and the counter-attack at Kharkov in early 1942.

I'm thinking maybe INTJ?

 

[Edgar]

You do know that his habit of going after the families was a result of his Georgian upbringing right? Family feuds were a common thing in traditional Georgian society, and if you took action against an enemy it was often customary to take action against their families as well - or else their descendents would later take revenge against you.

Stalin's skills as a political leader were well tesified to by many, including Western leaders during WWII.

I find it hard to believe that Stalin was ESTJ or even ISTJ. This is particularly because of the numerous testimonies to the fact that Stalin had a significant grasp of grand strategy. Winston Churchill even remarked in his memoirs about WWII of how during a meeting with Stalin in 1942, after informing about the Allied invasion of North Africa; Stalin immediately understood the importance of the operation and explained four main reasons why.

As Churchill remarked: "I was deeply impressed with this remarkable statement. It showed the Russian Dictator's swift and complete mastery of a problem hitherto novel to him. Very few people could have comprehended in so few minutes the reasons which we had all so long been wrestling with for months. He saw it all in a flash."
--cited in Stalin and His Generals: Soviet Military Memoirs of World War II, pg.35

Not only was Stalin quite capable and competent in grand strategy, but also in detailed tactical matters as well. It was largely in operational matters that he lacked skill in, as was demonstrated in his poor handling of the defense of Kiev in 1941 and the counter-attack at Kharkov in early 1942.

I'm thinking maybe INTJ?

Well, I do believe he was an intelligent man. And it would be wrong to assume that an intelligent SJ would not have a good grasp of strategy (there are plenty of lefties with strong right arms). To assess someone's type accurately you have to look at what the person's preferred approach is, and not necessarily what he is capable of.

The way Stalin ran the country seems very STJ-ish to me. NTs tend to be a lot more lenient when it comes to the opposing ideas. As long as the ideas circulated in the domestic politics are not directly threatening to the NT dictator, he will allow them to exist because they could possibly lead to the improvement to the current system, or at the very least to give an air of tolerance and acceptability in the country, which will improve the ruler's standing amongst the people. SJs dictators tend to be a lot less tolerant than that. They have a crystal clear dogma, and any threat to that dogma (not just to the dictator himself) will be dealt with harshly. NTs an SPs generally tend to leave a lot more room for compromise than do SJs and NFs when it comes to ideals, rules, and general outlook on life. Those are the differences between utilitarian personalities (NTs and SPs), and cooperative personalities (SJs and NFs).

 

[Valiant]

Peguy, I hate to say it. But I agree with you. I am inclined to believe that Stalin was an INTJ. Somehow that makes the most sense to me. This probably depends on what a person have read about him, though. Different propaganda paints different pictures, so it's kind of hard. He manipulated Lenin and everyone around him from the relative shadows for years, and then finally seized power in a ruthless manner, driving off and/or killed Leo Trotskij and the other competitors. It's just something about the guy that screams INTJ.

 

[wildcat]

You do know that his habit of going after the families was a result of his Georgian upbringing right? Family feuds were a common thing in traditional Georgian society, and if you took action against an enemy it was often customary to take action against their families as well - or else their descendents would later take revenge against you.

Stalin's skills as a political leader were well tesified to by many, including Western leaders during WWII.

I find it hard to believe that Stalin was ESTJ or even ISTJ. This is particularly because of the numerous testimonies to the fact that Stalin had a significant grasp of grand strategy. Winston Churchill even remarked in his memoirs about WWII of how during a meeting with Stalin in 1942, after informing about the Allied invasion of North Africa; Stalin immediately understood the importance of the operation and explained four main reasons why.

As Churchill remarked: "I was deeply impressed with this remarkable statement. It showed the Russian Dictator's swift and complete mastery of a problem hitherto novel to him. Very few people could have comprehended in so few minutes the reasons which we had all so long been wrestling with for months. He saw it all in a flash."
--cited in Stalin and His Generals: Soviet Military Memoirs of World War II, pg.35

Not only was Stalin quite capable and competent in grand strategy, but also in detailed tactical matters as well. It was largely in operational matters that he lacked skill in, as was demonstrated in his poor handling of the defense of Kiev in 1941 and the counter-attack at Kharkov in early 1942.

I'm thinking maybe INTJ?

The Soviet Union won the war because of the Land Lease and because of the massive Soviet resources in men and in space and in energy.
Ruthlessness is not grand military strategy. Nor is quick wit.
The Russians did not win because of Stalin. They won in spite of him.
Hitler was able to take Ukraina because of Stalin's fateful errors in military strategy.
Nikita says he was a flop, and Nikita knew what. He was the apparatchik in charge there.

Churchill was not.

 

[Sture]

Although it shouldn't count for much, as I don't know a fraction of what you people do about the subject, I cast my vote for ESTJ.

Great discussion, I very much enjoyed reading it.

 

[swordpath]

I'm not obsessed with Hitler... Or Stalin. In fact, I kind of wish they never existed.

 

[Eldanen]

Most dictators happen to be ENFJ.

 

[Valiant]

Most dictators happen to be ENFJ.

Do you have any sources for this claim? I'm just interested. I'm not saying that it's bullshit, but i'd like to see some form of study on it or such.

 

[Eldanen]

Do you have any sources for this claim? I'm just interested. I'm not saying that it's bullshit, but i'd like to see some form of study on it or such.

Well, no, I don't have any sources for that claim, or any studies. All I have, really, is phototyping ability . And what I see from that is sometimes quite obvious.

FeNis can be extremely nice people, but they are also quite charismatic and inspirational in ways that Fi types are not. While Fi, in my opinion, takes a more distanced approach to relationships, Fe approaches these in a very dynamic, power-packed way. How many of these dictators were dynamic, inspiring men? Also, in looking to type a person on Ni, you can look at how abstract their speech is. If you look at the kind of comedian like Mitch Hedberg, that's the kind of linguistic abstraction I'm talking about. You can pretty much find it in all ENFJs to some degree, some more than others, depending on how focused they are on their P function, Ni. I'm not sure how to explain Ni itself in a relation to this, except that its method of processing information is extremely precise when compared to Ne. It's more deep and probing, as all introverted functions tend to be. Look at some of these major dictators that have held sway over a lot of people. To get an example of the type of Ni presence I'm talking about, look at Carl Jung in his younger days, an Ni-sub INFp. It's very staunch, almost ascetic-looking.

Most beta NFs (ENFjs, INFps), tend to have a very kingly, elegant, aristocratic approach to the world. This is why it's easy to see them as the types most likely for an open dictatorship. Also, they can be very volatile, which explains why these open dictatorships tend to rise very quickly and fall in about the same amount of time when confronted with an alternative.

If you look at types like the ESTj and other Delta-quadra types (INFj, ENFp, ISTp), you'll find the same aristocratic outlook, except different. Whereas the Beta quadra members (ISTj, ENFj, INFp, ESTp) have Se, the deltas focus on Si. Any dictatorship that they have any part in would likely be more low-key. In my experience, most of them would profess that they value democracy and equality. But if you press them, a little deeper, you'll find that they enjoy a more centralized form of government. So with them it's just not as easily seen. Whereas a an unhealthy delta ST might make an attempt at manipulation by using humor or saying that they care about you and that they're trying to help you, Betas have no such qualms with just saying, "Fuck you" right off the bat.

 

[Sniffles]

I don't know about ENFJ. I know BW classifed Lenin as such.

I still think INTJ or at least NTJ, based upon the 12 years of reading Ive done about the man's life and his personality.

 

[yenom]

Stalin can't be entj, he lack vision. he can't be intj either becquse intj don't rob banks. Stalin is far more a pragnmaticist than an idealist, so his N might not be that good.

Also, it was known that stalin hated authority, so Sj are unlikely.

ENFj makes good cult leaders but they are not good dictartors.

 

[Jack Flak]

Stalin can't be entj, he lack vision. he can't be intj either becquse intj don't rob banks. Stalin is far more a pragnmaticist than an idealist, so his N might not be that good.

Also, it was known that stalin hated authority, so Sj are unlikely.

ENFj makes good cult leaders but they are not good dictartors.

If these arguments can be considered trustworthy, hypothetically, then I propose ESTP. My argument is theoretical, of course.

 

[Edgar]

Stalin can't be entj, he lack vision. he can't be intj either becquse intj don't rob banks. Stalin is far more a pragnmaticist than an idealist, so his N might not be that good.

Also, it was known that stalin hated authority, so Sj are unlikely.

ENFj makes good cult leaders but they are not good dictartors.

You have to be careful about blanket statements like "INTJs don't rob banks" or "he hated authority therefore not SJ". Try to take things in a context.

Stalin's father was an abusive alcoholic who couldn't hold a job, and Stalin grew up in lawless country. These kind of surroundings can be viewed as a lack of proper authority in the SJs eyes, resulting in the disdain of such environment, not a hatred toward authority in general.

Stalin's own way of running the country was through extreme micromanagement, which is not exactly a way someone who resents authority would operate.

 

[Edgar]

This pictures proves that I am more familiar with Stalin than anyone else on this board:

 

[booyalab]

Do you have any sources for this claim? I'm just interested. I'm not saying that it's bullshit, but i'd like to see some form of study on it or such.

There there, I'm sure there are just as many would-be ENTJ dictators. It's the thought that counts.

 

[Eldanen]

This pictures proves that I am more familiar with Stalin than anyone else on this board:

This picture proves that you suck at phototyping.

 

[The Ü™]

This picture proves that you suck at phototyping.

So what is Edgar's V.I. type?

 

[Edgar]

V.I. ?

Are you talking about this guy?