Moral imperative for a housing crash... and permanent devaluation

[ygolo]

https://www.sfgate.com/california/article/leaving-california-not-reasons-think-19911056.php

 

[ygolo]

It would take a certain type of resident. But, I like the mixed use trend.

 

[The Cat]

When I was a kid hanging out in the mall I used to think. One day these will be places people live like little post apocalyptic palace towns.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

When I was a kid hanging out in the mall I used to think. One day these will be places people live like little post apocalyptic palace towns.

I actually thought as a kid that malls would be around forever. I admit I mourn their passing. They used to seem futuristic to me, even before I saw Timecop.

 

[ygolo]

The housing shortage is so bad older homes are almost as expensive as brand-new ones

The housing shortage and high mortgage rates have reduced existing home inventory.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Lark]

I'm not sure a permanent devaluation will ever happen in housing, it seems like one of those types of markets in which there is a definitely finite supply and as a result there will always be sufficient scarcity to drive up demand and consequently price most people out in the longer term, monopoly only ever gets played one way, international competition/globalization I think only ever posed a temporary break on that tendency (in other markets too).

I do think there's a moral and economic case for the taxation of supernormal profits and especially where rent seeking is very definitely a market failing on transfers and transactions.

This is part of the tendency to exclude all but a precious few from the status of ownership. Marx analysed it a long time ago and I cant say he was wrong about, it also was not much of a fresh insight, even then, and had been detected by a lot of earlier economists.

Unfortunately, because it was Marx, and because of the associations with socialism or communism, anathemas to the American mind, it cant be admitted into US consciousness, unless its qualified by anti-semitism or sectarianism or racism.

It can be admitted if it validates WASPs persecution complexes, not if its a basic rule of the economy because WASPs are meant to love the economy and resist any interference with it at all costs.

 

[ygolo]

When I was a kid hanging out in the mall I used to think. One day these will be places people live like little post apocalyptic palace towns.

I would think of them as quarters in a space station. My wife would not approve.

 

[ygolo]

I'm not sure a permanent devaluation will ever happen in housing, it seems like one of those types of markets in which there is a definitely finite supply and as a result there will always be sufficient scarcity to drive up demand and consequently price most people out in the longer term, monopoly only ever gets played one way, international competition/globalization I think only ever posed a temporary break on that tendency (in other markets too).

I do think there's a moral and economic case for the taxation of supernormal profits and especially where rent seeking is very definitely a market failing on transfers and transactions.

This is part of the tendency to exclude all but a precious few from the status of ownership. Marx analysed it a long time ago and I cant say he was wrong about, it also was not much of a fresh insight, even then, and had been detected by a lot of earlier economists.

Unfortunately, because it was Marx, and because of the associations with socialism or communism, anathemas to the American mind, it cant be admitted into US consciousness, unless its qualified by anti-semitism or sectarianism or racism.

It can be admitted if it validates WASPs persecution complexes, not if its a basic rule of the economy because WASPs are meant to love the economy and resist any interference with it at all costs.

Can you expand a bit on what you mean?

 

[Lark]

Can you expand a bit on what you mean?

There's a tendency towards monopoly and concentration of wealth, no matter how many ways the pack is shuffled or reset, it will inevitably play out that way again.

The later part of my post was just about how there are populations of people who will accept ideas if they are framed in racist ways, or as conspiracy theories, usually something anti-semitic, which they wont accept otherwise, for instance as mundane economic analysis.

 

[ygolo]

Why steel magnate Barry Zekelman is gambling $1 billion of his family's money on factory-built housing.

The U.S. needs to build much faster and much cheaper. Steel magnate Barry Zekelman is gambling $1 billion of his family's money that Z Modular can churn out prefab apartment complexes to meet that demand.

www.forbes.com

I'm going to say no. Prefab houses have been around for a long.

Without the grid of plumbing, electricity, and transportation to plug into, the costs aren't leveled.

Also, zoning and NIMBYism are the biggest problems.

Edit, history repeats quickly now:

Can factory-built apartments solve California’s housing woes?

Could modular housing really revolutionize apartment construction? A look at the checkered past and future promise of pre-fab.

calmatters.org

 

[SensEye]

I'm not sure about 'factory built' although if it reduces construction costs (and theoretically rent) on newly built units it should be considered. I think much more high density housing is the inevitable answer. People don't particularly like that notion, but detached single family homes in sprawling suburbs that require all sorts of infrastructure (roads, sewers, etc. etc.) are not going to come cheap.

 

[ygolo]

I'm not sure about 'factory built' although if it reduces construction costs (and theoretically rent) on newly built units it should be considered. I think much more high density housing is the inevitable answer. People don't particularly like that notion, but detached single family homes in sprawling suburbs that require all sorts of infrastructure (roads, sewers, etc. etc.) are not going to come cheap.

It would be part of the solution, but we've had that part for a long time.

Perhaps this could be another part:

EarthGrid™ Plasma Tunnel-Boring Technology

EarthGrid™ is developing the world’s first way to tunnel, trench, and excavate using our patented plasma tunnel-boring technology.

earthgrid.io

 

[ygolo]

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/11/nx-s1-5223561/the-u-s-is-facing-a-severe-housing-shortage-will-trumps-proposals-help

 

[ygolo]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-salary-needed-to-buy-a-house-in-americas-10-wealthiest-towns/

 

[ygolo]

Many employers who mandated a RTO policy say office leases affected decisions to bring workers back

Leaders aren’t talking about it.

fortune.com

Like there was any doubt.

 

[ygolo]

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/27/nx-s1-5241115/us-homeless-hud-housing-costs-migrants

 

[ygolo]

Housing First Works | HUD USER

Anyone who has dealt with any level of homelessness while dealing with mental health, know being unhoused can overwhelm any mental health regimen.

Housing first doesn't mean housing only.

 

[ygolo]

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2025-01-16/san-francisco-hit-by-tech-struggles-high-housing-costs

 

[ygolo]

 

[ygolo]