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Random political thought thread.

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Some (for driving and minors).
But there is currently campaign that is trying to lower general consumption. There is currently one about drugs as well. Another is one about smoking as well. In other words the system has officially realized that it wouldn't able to cover everything if many don't become more serious their own health. The money, demographics, inflation and staff just wouldn't allow that the situation is fully covered if things continue to snowball. What means that the only way is to go after snowballing effect before things get out of hand. This is exactly why the system is offering you various free tests, so that the medical problem can be found even before things go south (the cancer is obvious example). Because being preventive is basically the only way how to keep costs under control.

This is why I wrote what I wrote. Keeping this boat floating trough geopolitical mess isn't trivial task. Since you can't just charge extra to people that want treatment. Because that overrides the whole point of the system.
Well, studies have come out recently showing that alcohol isn't even good for you in moderation. There are a lot of things humans enjoy that isn't that good for them, even setting aside weed, booze, and other drugs. Consider sausages, ham, sweets, motorcycles, etc. It seems challenging to enforce all this, even in countries were people are more amenable to that.

Perhaps you could do something where if you purchase any of these things, you have to pay more for healthcare. That seems somewhat intrusive, though.

I think marijuana legalization was one of the few progressive policies of the post-Bush era that was an unqualified success,. The legalization of marijuana by liberal-marijuana states is a significant win in a time period that did not produce enough of them. I grew up hearing a great deal of propaganda about marijuana that turned out to not be true. Personally, I hate being lied to. How am I supposed to believe that if you do drugs, they will ruin your life if all the politicians running the country have done them, whether they're good Christians or not?

Another way you can think about it is through a comparison with alcohol prohibition. I live in Chicago, so my answer might be predictable ( alcohol prohibition made a lot of criminals very rich), but do you think repealing Prohibition was a bad idea?
 
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I wonder if their disaffection came in part from the use of flawed science to justify bigotry, as in some of the early studies that claimed to show Black people were less intelligent or able to master difficult tasks like flying.
That did happen. How was it demonstrated that this was not the case? I think this guy played a pretty big role in it:

Frank Boas

Regarding women in STEM, I believe in making a distinction between the argument that there aren't enough women in STEM (I'm not opposed to acknowledging and correcting that), and the argument that STEM should not exist at all because it's inherently sexist, or whatever else is suppose to be wrong with it.

I think no good can come from devaluing an empirical approach to the world, certainly not any kind of liberation. IMO, this is how we got what we will be dealing with in 2025.
 
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Virtual ghost

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Well, studies have come out recently showing that alcohol isn't even good for you in moderation. There are a lot of things humans enjoy that isn't that good for them, even setting aside weed, booze, and other drugs. Consider sausages, ham, sweets, motorcycles, etc. It seems challenging to enforce all this, even in countries were people are more amenable to that.

Perhaps you could do something where if you purchase any of these things, you have to pay more for healthcare. That seems somewhat intrusive, though.

I think marijuana legalization was one of the few progressive policies of the post-Bush era that was an unqualified success,. The legalization of marijuana by liberal-marijuana states is a significant win in a time period that did not produce enough of them. I grew up hearing a great deal of propaganda about marijuana that turned out to not be true. Personally, I hate being lied to. How am I supposed to believe that if you do drugs, they will ruin your life if all the politicians running the country have done them, whether they're good Christians or not?

Another way you can think about it is through a comparison with alcohol prohibition. I live in Chicago, so my answer might be predictable ( alcohol prohibition made a lot of criminals very rich), but do you think repealing Prohibition was a bad idea?


You are pulling me into you your culture and I don't really relate to any of it. What Christianity really has to do with any of it ? It isn't that Christians don't get to have addiction problems. At my place drunk right wing politician at the wheel is something "normal". One of my regional governors had to quit since was caught drunk in car accident for third time. My defense minister is also currently at the court since he killed a person drunk on the highway, My ex mayor managed to get cops fired since they caught him and that was a big scandal ...... etc. etc.


However alcohol can be used in a way that isn't additive. Few drinks a year are more than enough.
The key is figuring this out on time. But for that you need to use a brain.
 
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You are pulling me into you your culture and I don't really relate to any of it.
That's fine. I am not out to get you. I am simply trying to make my POV heard.

I think marijuana prohibition is comparable to alcohol prohibition, which is widely acknowledged to have created more problems than it solved.
What Christianity really has to do with any of it ? It isn't that Christians don't get to have addiction problems. At my place drunk right wing politician at the wheel is something "normal". One of my regional governors had to quit since was caught drunk in car accident for third time. My defense minister is also currently at the court since he killed a person drunk on the highway, My ex mayor managed to get cops fired since they caught him and that was a big scandal ...... etc. etc.
Evangelical Christianity was for a while anyway associated from clean living, primarily abstaining from drugs and premartial sex. They did get extremely excited about electing someone who did drugs (I don't remember marijuana, but definitely cocaine), though. I don't know what evangelicals are supposed to believe in these days.

It's just bizarre to be lectured about how drugs will ruin your life, and then you keep noticing that all the people being elected to hold the highest offices have done all this stuff, even the darlings of the good Christians. (I also don't believe for a second that Donald Trump has never done drugs.)
However alcohol can be used in a way that isn't additive. Few drinks a year are more than enough.
The key is figuring this out on time. But for that you need to use a brain.
It's the same with weed. I think it's actually less of an issue because chemical dependency isn't really a thing. I've never heard of anything like getting the DTs from it, certainly
 
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Coriolis

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That did happen. How was it demonstrated that this was not the case? I think this guy played a pretty big role in it:

Frank Boas

Regarding women in STEM, I believe in making a distinction between the argument that there aren't enough women in STEM (I'm not opposed to acknowledging and correcting that), and the argument that STEM should not exist at all because it's inherently sexist, or whatever else is suppose to be wrong with it.

I think no good can come from devaluing an empirical approach to the world, certainly not any kind of liberation. IMO, this is how we got what we will be dealing with in 2025.
There is a third option regarding STEM: that it has been conducted in a way that emphasizes stereotypically masculine qualities at the expense of feminine ones. Some of those masculine qualities are essential to STEM, but more is needed.

Evangelical Christianity was for a while anyway associated from clean living, primarily abstaining from drugs and premartial sex. They did get extremely excited about electing someone who did drugs (I don't remember marijuana, but definitely cocaine), though. I don't know what evangelicals are supposed to believe in these days.
Don't forget that Jimmy Carter is an evangelical. He has devoted his post-presidential years to peacemaking and serving the less fortunate. Progressive evangelicals - those who believe in caring for the poor and including the marginalized, as Jesus did - have been eclipsed by the more politically engaged and savvy reactionary evangelicals, who weaponize the Bible and are into judgment and exclusion.
 
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There is a third option regarding STEM: that it has been conducted in a way that emphasizes stereotypically masculine qualities at the expense of feminine ones. Some of those masculine qualities are essential to STEM, but more is needed.
Could you explain a little more? I am interested but I am not sure I follow.
 

Virtual ghost

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That's fine. I am not out to get you. I am simply trying to make my POV heard.


Ok, but I will now give you my POV that is also culturally heavy as yours.
I understand your logic but I simply see all of this in completely different manner.


Yes, the government shouldn't over react to every detail regarding vices and addictions. However if things get out of hand in wider population I think it is legit that the government tries to ease that. Especially if that undermines universal healthcare, which is one of the most vital system in any country. Your country looks as it looks exactly since it doesn't have such a system. Since the lack of such system makes everything much more "unstructured" basically by default. However in Slavic world something like that can easily turn into a major problem. Which is because Slavs have the tendency to invade those that seem weak at the moment (and that includes other Slavs as well). What is right now going in Ukraine is just centuries old tradition of explicit conquest.


Therefore here is the problem, if your population is on various substances will that water down the system enough that you seem as weak and vulnerable ? If things go far enough it probably will. This is why I facepalm when people from English speaking world start to talk about "nanny state" on the issue. To such people it just isn't clear that Universal healthcare is vital element of national defense. First, it allows you that in every just a little bit bigger settlement you have someone that can treat hurt troops at the spot (as the front lines are moving across the landscape). In other words quick reaction is vital to insure survival. Another major element is that in the case that the place is invaded that causes economic collapse. What means that someone has to continue to cure people even if the economy is in shambles (perhaps even literally). Therefore if various addictions and substances water down the system that can be serious problem on top of everything. I probably wouldn't survive my childhood diseases in the case that there wasn't universal healthcare while bombs were falling on the city. What wasn't some random episode. The war lasted for 4 years and that was a third war in the region since my grandfather was born. While even today I have 4 Russian proxies on my borders (that are outnumbering my country multiple times). Therefore if Trump messes up NATO the only thing between me and the foreign troops is the stamina of me and my own countrymen. That is all there is in between. What means that undermining that is very bad idea.


This is why I systematically reject explicit individualism. For me that is deeply impractical ideology that can't provide results when you live in these kind of environment. The Slavic world of Eastern Europe can be unforgiving and therefore any kind of explicit wandering isn't really smart thing to do. Your country has for centuries relied on the oceans to keep this problem at bay. However with modern transportation, internet and assets overseas the logic of individual desires probably wouldn't work anymore. The downturn in just about everything suggests that pretty clearly. Therefore your country will either adapt or implode under all pressures and related debts. Not a pretty thing to say but I am pretty sure I am more correct about this than wrong. Life has thought me to not take survival and social order for granted, therefore I stick to that conclusion.
 

Red Herring

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Guys, preventive medicine is not about outlawing alcohol or marihuana. It is about education, regular checkups and early diagnosis through screening.

In the US community healthcare centers are directed at the poor, uninsured and medically underserved, but in quite a few countries they are there for everybody and do a good job of it too.
 

The Cat

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The Rock.
Teamsters
The Hard Place.

I'll take a pro labor labor secretary regardless of her party...But it's a thinner beam than I want to be stuck on this high up over the void.
Please DNC learn the lesson, and become more populist.

O'Brien is a hell of a good gambler....
I just hope we're not playing roulette.


 

Virtual ghost

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The above is probably fundamentally flawed take of the issue. Since all of that goes into the direction that rhetoric was the problem. What evidently isn't the case. What was missing was practical action and clear vision. The problem isn't passing the border bill, the problem was that not much was actually done with the border. As I said no one even tried to explain to the people why US supports Ukraine. Since that is vital for geopolitical play of US and thus it directly effects wage levels in the country (and how big is the deficit). They also could have done a few interesting science tests in front of the camera to prove that climate change and green house effect are real. They could have offered more in the terms of practical help to the people .... etc.


Instead it all came down to bla bla bla for the most part and many voters just got status quo felling out of that (so they voted red because they don't have 4 years for talk about the issues, since inflation is biting).
 

The Cat

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^What are some ways for the Dems to be more populist? Tim Walz was certainly a sincere attempt. He was the real deal.

There is a culture of what i would call "snooty hippies" in places like Colorado where they are super rich and say great words, but don't live their ideals. I had dinners with a group of snooty liberals in a northern midwest area and they had great philosophical and historical discussions, but were stingy tippers and that sort of thing. I was at a academic arts symposium where someone gave a talk about their college day idealism wanting to help the "common man", but said when they got out they couldn't find them - which confused and exasperated me.

I guess I could fall in the middle because I will sometimes use intellectual language, but I did grow up trailer park trash and I'm still rather poor. I tried to debate in a convincing way, but probably get too robotic at times when there are ad hominem attacks. I learned it from INTP husbands and Mr. Spock, and it's really effective to do that in terms of wining a debate, but it probably pisses people off. It could make me feel frustrated but also impressed me which is why I do it sometimes.

I really don't know what to do or advice the Dems.
I'm not even sure they lost the election with the whole Starlink transmitting all the voting counts, Xman knowing the results four hours before everyone else, a shit ton of the ballots in swing states being only votes for Trump with no down ballot choices, 15 million votes mysteriously missing this time around even though rallies were packed, and Starlink satellites mysteriously falling from the sky. Maybe the strategy was correct?

Please don't quote this. I will delete it. I have my algorithms almost how I want them. I now get videos of baby Barron and Tiffany without asking for it... Incognito.

The DNC is bought and paid for by a lot of the same billionares the RNC is. Its why Fancy Nancy is so excited by the prospect of a strong republican party...The bigger and stronger they are the easier they are to hide behind, allowing establishment democrats to day trade with their inside information and profit from all the division in the nation, while getting to take the empty moral high ground and chasing meaningless non victories in the "ethics" of the political game.

When we stop mistaking confusion with collaboration the dncs seeming allergy to winning starts to make more sense.

There's no advice we can give the establishment democrats that they would listen to because its too damn profitable to them to keep relying on the same bad intel they've had for the last 20 years. They were the ones who rankled at the idea of a second biden term not for the stated reason of him being too old, but because Biden turned out to be way more populist and for the working family than he promised he would: "Nothing will fundamentally change." <----That's what got him nominated in the first place. But then he went ahead and did all that stuff for student debt, infrastructure, and the working class. He was poised to do even more, in his second term when reelection was no longer on the table. He could have joined the ranks of FDR in a historical sense. But the MSM and Corporate Dems...are (shocking I know) corporate tools. They like the same tax cuts that people like DT promise.

So when the entire entertainment media complex is paid for by the rich and powerful business interests with an agenda... and there is a disparate but not entirely un-separate distraction that will draw more focus and ire to a desired outcome comes along...why on earth would they not exploit it for profit, even at the expense of others? If the DNC listened to the people on the ground things like "too much wokeness" wouldnt be an issue because they would know what every honest church has known for generations. You see to people's physical needs(food, shelter, etc) before you start preaching to them their spiritual needs. It's not rocket science. Far from it. Before you start scolding and preaching at people, you make sure they and their loved ones arent starving, or on the street, or are more than just barely able to make ends meet....then suddenly people are more tolerant of being told this or that with regards to how they act or think towards others.

What really sucks is how many people are tricked into beleiving that the people they vote to represent them, actually represent them... Instead we've allowed them to build a device within our system that now is reliant on enough rich people to decide to "become saviors" and finance in politicians who aren't beholden to them, but rather the working stiffs who for the most part are too over worked, desperate and exhausted to be advanced citizens and advanced citizenship is the only way an actual democracy doesnt get mysteriously drowned in the shallow tub of corporate greed.

So the only thing we can really do is start getting involved with and building communities on the ground level. Eventually if enough people do it, the law of averages starts to kick in again for our benefit instead of our detriment. Right now. Things work more like a crime movie than not for one simple reason.

Our money just isnt long enough, which means we're in someone's pocket.

Its what pissed me off so much about Obama running on "Hope" and "Change" instead of anything actually concrete. He won on promising intangible concepts without any practical context. And when it of course didnt live up to the hype (Keep in mind it only ever inferred and implied rather than implicitly promise.) People were pissed and felt betrayed enough so that a metric fuck ton of american votors ran to a snake oil salesmen who promised to go after the snake oil manufacturors. And through it all, social media has been there, driving us further apart and more insane on the ground level. Thus making sure that we won't be doing the one thing that could change things within a workable context, for quite some time to come. We can't live together on the island, so we will die alone.
Unless...
 

The Cat

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I think VG is quite correct in that one way or another Liberalism as we know it is dead already. It's ghost just hasn't accepted the truth yet.

What frustrates me, is that there could be something better to take its place, but that wont happen as long as people keep clinging to the decaying corpse.
 

The Cat

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It's easy to hate and fear a stranger. Its easy to stoke that fear to deadly levels. Its a lot harder to do it when its your friends, family, and neighbors. The more you can isolate people from each other the easier it is to pick them off one by one or farm them in manageable sized herds. Its all a bloody cook book.
 

The Cat

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It's gonna be hard for a lot of people to realize that its all just a charade.​
 

Virtual ghost

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I think VG is quite correct in that one way or another Liberalism as we know it is dead already. It's ghost just hasn't accepted the truth yet.

What frustrates me, is that there could be something better to take its place, but that wont happen as long as people keep clinging to the decaying corpse.

Well, technically it isn't dead until it is dead in all countries around the world. However with current trends this looks to be more of a matter of time than anything else. Since at this point it is evident that we will have to go through one pretty ugly and unstable period of global history. However what will actually come out when the dust settles down is basically everyone's guess at this point.
 

Virtual ghost

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Well, technically it isn't dead until it is dead in all countries around the world. However with current trends this looks to be more of a matter of time than anything else. Since at this point it is evident that we will have to go through one pretty ugly and unstable period of global history. However what will actually come out when the dust settles down is basically everyone's guess at this point.

The problem is that writing is on the wall, and therefore everyone who want to see it can see it.

However the sad part is that in the big picture Harris victory probably wouldn't made a fundamental difference. Since the problem is that the whole world is in complete geopolitical mess. The number of countries where everything is going normally is actually quite small (and those countries are probably small as well). In other words this means that global economy is wobbling for real and that is something that is effecting everyone on the planet (and outcome is uncertain on so many ways). Therefore what Trump's trifecta is doing is that it removes all doubt that there will be severe turbulence ahead. Therefore now the writing is on the wall for everyone to see it clearly 24/7, since now it even glows in neon light during nigh time. This really is just a formal crossroad of much larger global problem, which is getting out of hand for decades at this point.
 

The Cat

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The problem is that writing is on the wall, and therefore everyone who want to see it can see it.

However the sad part is that in the big picture Harris victory probably wouldn't made a fundamental difference. Since the problem is that the whole world is in complete geopolitical mess. The number of countries where everything is going normally is actually quite small (and those countries are probably small as well). In other words this means that global economy is wobbling for real and that is something that is effecting everyone on the planet (and outcome is uncertain on so many ways). Therefore what Trump's trifecta is doing is that it removes all doubt that there will be severe turbulence ahead. Therefore now the writing is on the wall for everyone to see it clearly 24/7, since now it even glows in neon light during nigh time. This really is just a formal crossroad of much larger global problem, which is getting out of hand for decades at this point.
It would have only been a little more time on the clock, but at this stage in the game, I was onboard for what little time it would have bought.
 
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What confuses me is this - don’t the billionaires already have everything they want with gravy on top?

If they keep pushing and depriving the populace we will be a bunch of strewn about derelicts unable to purchase the latest fashions at Macy’s and the new generation smart glasses. The corporations need customers - consumers. If they wreck us further they wreck themselves. It’s like the virus that kills its host, but these people should be smarter than microbes.
I'm guessing they enjoy the power plays over thinking rationally like that. They love having all the power they do.
I don’t understand it logically. I understand it up to this point of progression from Reagan but the rebalancing being done under Biden should sustain their grift and keep everyone working extra hours to buy their X boxes and Stiletto heels. They have taken it a little too far and need to throw us some bones to keep the system stable or their grift will end or at least be less efficient, less able to maximize on taking resources if the population hadn’t any left to take.
I don't place a lot of weight in people's ability to act in their enlightened self-interest.
 

The Cat

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What confuses me is this - don’t the billionaires already have everything they want with gravy on top?

If they keep pushing and depriving the populace we will be a bunch of strewn about derelicts unable to purchase the latest fashions at Macy’s and the new generation smart glasses. The corporations need customers - consumers. If they wreck us further they wreck themselves. It’s like the virus that kills its host, but these people should be smarter than microbes.

I don’t understand it logically. I understand it up to this point of progression from Reagan but the rebalancing being done under Biden should sustain their grift and keep everyone working extra hours to buy their X boxes and Stiletto heels. They have taken it a little too far and need to throw us some bones to keep the system stable or their grift will end or at least be less efficient, less able to maximize on taking resources if the population hadn’t any left to take.
Billionaires can never have the one thing they want more than anything else. It is the lot of all mortals that they die and are forgotten. They can never be gods. At best they will endure as toppled giants or slain dragons in half remembered folklore. In the meantime we must endure their dragon sickness and despise them of the worship they so crave.
 
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