Trump vs. Biden

[ceecee]

Not every Trump voter is racist or misled. There’s a rational Trump voter too - The Correspondent

I know at least one person from each of these categories. But, I know many in the white supremacy/self interest category. These are not the vile ultra-nationalists committing right wing gang violence and terrorism seen in DC and elsewhere. These are the white people that insist things like systemic/institutional racism doesn't exist, that their chosen way of life is by far the best idea for everyone if everyone would just see it their way, sprinkle on some xenophobia caused by "illegals" committing huge crime waves and the perception that something somehow is a threat and pathological self-preservation is the answer.

Fox News set out to show America in the way these Americans want to see it years ago. And I think that's precisely how the Trump wave came to be. They've always been counting on the reactionary, illogical voter with just enough paranoia to help turn a vague fantasy into reality. That's why a Trump voter would be fine with something like..

US companies had spent a record $1 trillion on buying back their own stock. Buybacks prop up prices and increase the value stock investors already held, therefore increasing their wealth.

...and blaming Democrats for it, even though in 2018, Republicans were causing nearly all of the above.

 

[Jaguar]

I do agree though that it's important to increase trust in the process. By all means, let them recount.

No one without false teeth has become president?

 

[Nicodemus]

That could very well be, but the fact is that the election process this year was very different from 2016, so the vetting necessary to restore bipartisan faith in the electoral process will be more extensive than then.

I'm not saying that the media should put an asterisk next to Biden's victory, but rather do the universe a favor and commit seppiku- because if you think it's more important to acknowledge the "tradition" of a corrupt and wildly untrustworthy's institution than it is the legal and constitutional process that actually matters, nothing you say can really be trusted.

If you don't see how the things I listed might need to be examined and explained and transparsntly vetted in the courts to guarantee election integrity and faith in the process across all demographics I don't know what to tell you.

People who buy into conspiracy theories usually think they are the reasonble, rational ones. In case you are still unaware: You are one of them. Over the last five years, you have unwittingly fallen into a world of alternative facts. Sad.

 

[Jaguar]

Trump acknowledges Biden’s win, but quickly reverses, saying ‘I concede NOTHING!’ The dueling tweets came as Mr. Trump continued to lie about the conduct of the vote-counting process, falsely insisting that Mr. Biden’s victory was the result of a “Rigged” election orchestrated by the “Fake & Silent” media.

That puppy needs psychological help.

 

[Jaguar]

Sound familiar?

 

[Jonny]

That could very well be, but the fact is that the election process this year was very different from 2016, so the vetting necessary to restore bipartisan faith in the electoral process will be more extensive than then.

I'm not saying that the media should put an asterisk next to Biden's victory, but rather do the universe a favor and commit seppiku- because if you think it's more important to acknowledge the "tradition" of a corrupt and wildly untrustworthy's institution than it is the legal and constitutional process that actually matters, nothing you say can really be trusted.

If you don't see how the things I listed might need to be examined and explained and transparsntly vetted in the courts to guarantee election integrity and faith in the process across all demographics I don't know what to tell you.

Only one candidate is undermining election integrity and faith in the process, and no amount of transparency or vetting in the courts will change that. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Only one candidate is undermining election integrity and faith in the process, and no amount of transparency or vetting in the courts will change that. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

yeah... the observers were allowed into the rooms in Pennsylvania. They had to stand six feet away and they wanted to stand closer. This stuff about his observers not being allowed in is total bullshit.

 

[anticlimatic]

Only one candidate is undermining election integrity and faith in the process, and no amount of transparency or vetting in the courts will change that. If you don't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

If Trump doesn't concede after the electors vote and after vetting in the courts turns up a legitimate win for Biden then that will be the case, but until then Trump is not outside of his legal rights and my issue is with the media- per the posted video that began this little aside. Trump is and always has been a relatively small player to me in the great cosmic scheme of things.

 

[Jonny]

If Trump doesn't concede after the electors vote and after vetting in the courts turns up a legitimate win for Biden then that will be the case, but until then Trump is not outside of his legal rights and my issue is with the media- per the posted video that began this little aside. Trump is and always has been a relatively small player to me in the great cosmic scheme of things.

The only way the bolded rings true based on your past statements is if literally no living person is more than a “relatively small player” in the “great cosmic scheme of things.” And if that’s the case, then the statement is pretty meaningless. After all, you’re the one who said this:

...Trump, upon which the sun rises and sets for those who both love and hate him; strong, independent, pragmatic economic appeal, a very enthusiastic base, a bevy of accomplishments and a solid record of defending himself against a landslide of unfounded accusations and criticism.​

Is that you Ben?

Let’s not pretend such a man should be so easily excused as though he were a bit player.

 

[Jaguar]

500 Trump supporters - including pardoned Roger Stone - rally in Delray, insisting that the election was stolen
The event was highlighted by a march down Atlantic Avenue and a speech by Stone, who suggested the CIA changed vote tallies to benefit Democrat Joe Biden.

Now it's the CIA? Give me a break. lol.

 

[Jonny]

Now it's the CIA? Give me a break. lol.

The scope of the conspiracy grows larger with each passing day.

 

[anticlimatic]

The only way the bolded rings true based on your past statements is if literally no living person is more than a “relatively small player” in the “great cosmic scheme of things.” And if that’s the case, then the statement is pretty meaningless. After all, you’re the one who said this:

...Trump, upon which the sun rises and sets for those who both love and hate him; strong, independent, pragmatic economic appeal, a very enthusiastic base, a bevy of accomplishments and a solid record of defending himself against a landslide of unfounded accusations and criticism.​

Is that you Ben?

Let’s not pretend such a man should be so easily excused as though he were a bit player.

Well, I guess if you're really determined to talk about T-Dawg here, I have a theory as to why he lives in some people's minds and drives them insane, while others tolerate him easily or outright like him. Let me know your thoughts:

I believe people hate most in others only what they hate in themselves, which is why Trump- an arrogant, easily offended, low self esteem, image obsessed, social-media-addicted narcissist is so reviled by the stereotypical millennial leftists of exactly the same type (of course there's other reasons, I'm sure you have your own, not speaking directly to you here). If you're not an arrogant person on a subconscious level, arrogance in others is actually quite amusing. Kind of like watching a cat try to catch a squirrel- you admire the effort and enthusiasm and unwarranted faith in the creature's self, but you know it's not going to end all that well for the cat's pride, so whatever. If you're not interested in having an image separate from your natural order to prop up for society, other people's fake and rehearsed bullshit just sort of disappears like dialogue on a TV in the other room that you're not listening to. If you don't give a fuck about social media, or posting on social media, you don't give a fuck what other people post. Point being, it's more than possible to know who Trump is, and still be OK with that, which is typically the case for his voters- who are not idiots, contrary to to the narrative. They haven't been duped or deceived, they just have different sets of insecurities to project onto their leftist villains- like a tendency to blow their entire paycheck the day they get it, use moral manipulation to acquire power and elevate their status among their micro-collectivist family/churches/communities/etc, dump their resources into that one family member who is constantly going to rehab at the expense of impoverishing the rest of the family, shame people who don't think like them, etc.

 

[Jonny]

Well, I guess if you're really determined to talk about T-Dawg here, I have a theory as to why he lives in some people's minds and drives them insane, while others tolerate him easily or outright like him. Let me know your thoughts:

I believe people hate most in others only what they hate in themselves, which is why Trump- an arrogant, easily offended, low self esteem, image obsessed, social-media-addicted narcissist is so reviled by the stereotypical millennial leftists of exactly the same type (of course there's other reasons, I'm sure you have your own, not speaking directly to you here). If you're not an arrogant person on a subconscious level, arrogance in others is actually quite amusing. Kind of like watching a cat try to catch a squirrel- you admire the effort and enthusiasm and unwarranted faith in the creature's self, but you know it's not going to end all that well for the cat's pride, so whatever. If you're not interested in having an image separate from your natural order to prop up for society, other people's fake and rehearsed bullshit just sort of disappears like dialogue on a TV in the other room that you're not listening to. If you don't give a fuck about social media, or posting on social media, you don't give a fuck what other people post. Point being, it's more than possible to know who Trump is, and still be OK with that, which is typically the case for his voters- who are not idiots, contrary to to the narrative. They haven't been duped or deceived, they just have different sets of insecurities to project onto their leftist villains- like a tendency to blow their entire paycheck the day they get it, use moral manipulation to acquire power and elevate their status among their micro-collectivist family/churches/communities/etc, dump their resources into that one family member who is constantly going to rehab at the expense of impoverishing the rest of the family, shame people who don't think like them, etc.

I don’t like Trump because he’s utterly amoral and lacks sufficient knowledge to do the job. He’s a huckster and a fraud. Your theory about hate seems utterly absurd to me...seriously. I disagree with basically the entire paragraph. You talk about your girlfriend not being a fan of Trump, and if you view her as you describe above then I have to ask why you’re in a relationship with her, because that is a very unflattering perception.

edit:

he just tweeted this

 

[anticlimatic]

I don't like Trump because he's utterly amoral and lacks sufficient knowledge to do the job. He's a huckster and a fraud. Your theory about hate seems utterly absurd to me...seriously. I disagree with basically the entire paragraph. You talk about your girlfriend not being a fan of Trump, and if you view her as you describe above then I have to ask why you're in a relationship with her, because that is a very unflattering perception.

It's one sided, focusing on a particular facet or two of a hypothetical individual in a specific context- but every person is much more than that. You're engaged, surely your fiance has some depth of character and personality, and isn't just blandly compliant perfect stepford wife.

I'm surprised you disagree with the premise of my post, I thought you were a student of psychology. Jung had the idea long before I did.

Why It's Important To Understand That We Hate Others For What We Hate About Ourselves | Thought Catalog

 

[Jonny]

It's one sided, focusing on a particular facet or two of a hypothetical individual in a specific context- but every person is much more than that. You're engaged, surely your fiance has some depth of character and personality, and isn't just blandly compliant perfect stepford wife.

I'm surprised you disagree with the premise of my post, I thought you were a student of psychology. Jung had the idea long before I did.

Why It's Important To Understand That We Hate Others For What We Hate About Ourselves | Thought Catalog

We’re talking about the POTUS here. Reasons why someone may dislike a coworker or classmate are not particularly relevant. I actually found Trump amusing when he wasn’t in politics. This is different.

Let me give you an analogy. Suppose I drove over to your mother’s house and shot her in the face. Then I lied to the police and somehow got off with probation, and I laughed in your face about it. Would you hate me because of what you see in yourself?

 

[anticlimatic]

We're talking about the POTUS here. Reasons why someone may dislike a coworker or classmate are not particularly relevant. I actually found Trump amusing when he wasn't in politics. This is different. Let me give you an analogy. Suppose I drove over to your mother's house and shot her in the face. Then I lied to the police and somehow got off with probation, and I laughed in your face about it. Would you hate me because of what you see in yourself?

Of course not, I would feel personally singled out and wronged by you, and would feel compelled to manifest a reckoning.

How has Trump personally singled you out and wronged you?

 

[Jonny]

Of course not, I would feel personally singled out and wronged by you, and would feel compelled to manifest a reckoning.

How has Trump personally singled you out and wronged you?

He hasn’t. But the point remains. I trust you can interpolate.

 

[anticlimatic]

He hasn’t. But the point remains. I trust you can interpolate.

I believe I see what you're getting at- a dislike rooted in pragmatism, perhaps?- and although I'd disagree, I'll let it go. It's getting late over here on the east side Yo.

 

[Red Herring]

Of course not, I would feel personally singled out and wronged by you, and would feel compelled to manifest a reckoning.

How has Trump personally singled you out and wronged you?

I think his point was that this would be objectively bad behavior and you would additionally as it destroys something you highly value, so you'd feel strongly about it without it reflecting who you secretely are. To many people what Trump does - dismantle freedom of the press, weaken the judiciary, erode trust in elections, incite violence, cause irreversable damage to the environment, worsen relations with most allies, etc -is objectively evil. Because it hurts or destroys what they value most, not because they are actually like him.
[MENTION=9251]Jonny[/MENTION] Sorry for jumping in. I am procrastinating as I face a rapidly approaching deadline.

 

[anticlimatic]

I think his point was that this would be objectively bad behavior and you would additionally as it destroys something you highly value, so you'd feel strongly about it without it reflecting who you secretely are. To many people what Trump does - dismantle freedom of the press, weaken the judiciary, erode trust in elections, incite violence, cause irreversable damage to the environment, worsen relations with most allies, etc -is objectively evil. Because it hurts or destroys what they value most, not because they are actually like him.

[MENTION=9251]Jonny[/MENTION] Sorry for jumping in. I am procrastinating as I face a rapidly approaching deadline.

Thanks, this helps a bit- though I think people are deceiving themselves if they feel like the source of their negative feelings for someone is rooted in conscious pragmatic super-ego calculations. Feelings and value judgements typically precede those, often laying the foundations for them completely. Of course I am only considering myself here and assuming universality- trying to think of someone I dislike for pragmatic reasons alone, or "objectively evil" reasons, and I'm drawing a blank. Everyone I've disliked has been rooted in petty self-reflective resentment. I thought Obama was a pragmatic disaster, yet I still "like" the guy to this day. Maybe it's just me. Hard to draw that line between the places where everyone is different, and everyone is the same, you know?