Random political thought thread.

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Its more than just that, there is a lot of information. I was just sharing the fact that information like that is hidden in google. I love how you just point that one out, but ignore the links to multiple government databases.

Well, yes, you can find a lot of government information on the internet. Again, I don't get it.

 

[Maou]

Well, yes, you can find a lot of government information on the internet. Again, I don't get it.

So you're not curious to thr fact you can enter a string of numbers into google and it will find government databases? Thats fine. I thought it was interesting :shrugs:

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So you're not curious to thr fact you can enter a string of numbers into google and it will find government databases? Thats fine. I thought it was interesting :shrugs:

Not really. Information in online systems if often encoded with sort of incomprehensible IDs like that. I don't get how it's sinister.

Look, if you can point to anything along the lines of what this guy uncovered (for whom I sure the Biden administration won't grant amnesty even though the activities he exposed were found to be illegal), then we'd have something.

Generally amnesty and pardons are only offered to actual crooks with political connections, not whistleblowers.

 

[Maou]

Not really. Information in online systems if often encoded with sort of incomprehensible IDs like that. I don't get how it's sinister.

Look, if you can point to anything along the lines of what this guy uncovered (for whom I sure the Biden administration won't grant amnesty even though the activities he exposed were found to be illegal), then we'd have something.

Generally amnesty and pardons are only offered to actual crooks with political connections, not whistleblowers.

... I didn't claim it was sinister, or even related to the election. I just seen people talking about it. I was like, cool. And thought I'd share. Its not something you see everyday. Just like encoded youtube videos like this:

Kinda spoopy.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

... I didn't claim it was sinister, or even related to the election. I just seen people talking about it. I was like, cool. And thought I'd share. Its not something you see everyday. Just like encoded youtube videos like this:

Kinda spoopy.

Oh, gotcha. Thought it was supposed to be some kind of conspiracy.

 

[Maou]

Oh, gotcha. Thought it was supposed to be some kind of conspiracy.

I didnt get that comment. I mean, I got the number off of 4chan. That part is true. 4chan loves dissecting and trying to find meaning in things. Thats how the whole Qanon thing started. Finding symbolism. Its a fun thought experiment, but even I don't take it seriously.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This CTH commentary on The Phantom Menace is hilarious.

 

[ceecee]

This CTH commentary on The Phantom Menace is hilarious.

I think of all the movie reviews they've done, the best is COBRA. It's was about a year ago but omg it's funny and unfortunately explains a great deal about this country.

It's also time for a re-listen of this episode. It's so wonderful.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think of all the movie reviews they've done, the best is COBRA. It's was about a year ago but omg it's funny and unfortunately explains a great deal about this country.

Well, when Golan and Globus are involved, you know you're in for some schlock. Though I'm surprised they made a movie about the more expensive health insurance you get after severance.

I know they did the other two prequels, also.

And I gotta disagree with Felix about Avatar.

It's also time for a re-listen of this episode. It's so wonderful.

Ah, I've heard them reference this before, but I don't know the origin story.

 

[FemMecha]

How do you propose reasserting boundaries without punishing individuals? If individuals behave in such a manner with impunity, to me that indicates that whatever boundary that exists in meaningless. Adding new laws to codify norms won't fix anything when even people who break the existing laws get away with it if they have enough money.

I would also say that within the past four years, I have not been radicalized so much as re-radicalized after a long period of apathy. It will be harder for me to sink into apathy this time, I think. The emergence of Trump proves to me that "moving forward" after crimes of high-ranking officials is not moral-high mindedness in any meaningful sense, but rather enables things to continue getting worse. Everything I have seen in the past four years (ESPECIALLY the past year) has confirmed that my college-age conception of the world (if not my way of navigating it emotionally or ideas of solutions) was in fact, for the most part, correct. The U.S. government and institutions have, for the most part, in fact rotted under the presence of a sort of ossified neoliberal imperial religious cult. This is when they are not been brazenly and proudly corrupt. Trump's major crime for the establishment is not having the awareness to avoid doing all this shit out in the open.

Consider the emphasis among the pundit class upon appearances and decorum; the most horrifying thing for them is that Trump shows no respect for any of these things.

I thought I was clear in my post using the human rights violations at the border as an example. People should be punished for behaviors that cross the line, but I think it is a mistake to punish people for voting for Trump, even if he is equally as bad as Hitler. I think that people who follow Trump are revealing moral flaws, but also dysfunctional perception. I'm going to try to increase my ability to see Trump support similarly to people who get taken by a cult figure. Giving people a chance to see more clearly and do better is important.

Our society is so messed up in the abstract realm of ideas and information that it is gobsmacking. Coming back to reality and focusing on actual behaviors, measurable manifestation of ideas that can be presented as facts is important. Society is beyond out of hand with perception as reality.

Edit: I've been reflecting on all of this since going off of FB. I have 100-200 "friends" from a religion that does support Trump, and their posts tend to focus on minuscule issues over the big picture and make little passive aggressive expressions in support of Trump. It was driving me crazy, but I don't think these people are going to rape or maime people, although they are showing a willingness to sit by and allow violations to occur. I don't want to allow violations, but I also don't want people to live in fear if they did vote for Trump, because it seems more constructive to try to move forward in hopes of people become more reasonable. I'm saying we need to focus on punishing behaviors more than ideas, even though I understand that ideas lead to behavior. I think the world needs more brass tacks approach and less of this narrative nonsense and banal branding, and propaganda war at every level of society.

I'm not going easy on Trump. I think he needs to be tried in a court of law and imprisoned. But, we have half of our population supporting him. We can't drive them all out or try to control them with force. We are forced to work together and I do think there is something important in what I'm saying even if I'm not saying it correctly. We need concrete, verifiable, measurable data to work with in every possible way, including assigning guilt at all levels.

 

[Jaguar]

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkey took offense at a U.S. statement that said Secretary of State Mike Pompeo would promote religious freedom during an upcoming visit to Istanbul and called Wednesday on Washington to focus on racism and hate crimes in the United States instead.


Good for you, Turkey.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I thought I was clear in my post using the human rights violations at the border as an example. People should be punished for behaviors that cross the line, but I think it is a mistake to punish people for voting for Trump, even if he is equally as bad as Hitler. I think that people who follow Trump are revealing moral flaws, but also dysfunctional perception. I'm going to try to increase my ability to see Trump support similarly to people who get taken by a cult figure. Giving people a chance to see more clearly and do better is important.

Our society is so messed up in the abstract realm of ideas and information that it is gobsmacking. Coming back to reality and focusing on actual behaviors, measurable manifestation of ideas that can be presented as facts is important. Society is beyond out of hand with perception as reality.

Edit: I've been reflecting on all of this since going off of FB. I have 100-200 "friends" from a religion that does support Trump, and their posts tend to focus on minuscule issues over the big picture and make little passive aggressive expressions in support of Trump. It was driving me crazy, but I don't think these people are going to rape or maime people, although they are showing a willingness to sit by and allow violations to occur. I don't want to allow violations, but I also don't want people to live in fear if they did vote for Trump, because it seems more constructive to try to move forward in hopes of people become more reasonable. I'm saying we need to focus on punishing behaviors more than ideas, even though I understand that ideas lead to behavior. I think the world needs more brass tacks approach and less of this narrative nonsense and banal branding, and propaganda war at every level of society.

I'm not going easy on Trump. I think he needs to be tried in a court of law and imprisoned. But, we have half of our population supporting him. We can't drive them all out or try to control them with force. We are forced to work together and I do think there is something important in what I'm saying even if I'm not saying it correctly. We need concrete, verifiable, measurable data to work with in every possible way, including assigning guilt at all levels.

Oh, I was thinking of Trump and his associates. I assumed you were referring to the same.

Frankly, I think a whole bunch of people besides the folks that voted for him are responsible for Trump. Centrist democrats who have neglected the working class (which now tends not to vote as a consequence) as well as taking minority voters for granted in pursuit of moderate blue state Republicans are also to blame; their failure is on a level of practical politics (winning elections), as well as from a moral and rational level.

 

[tinker683]

"Never before has a teddy bear been launched into orbit by the intensity of such a tantrum!"

I love the British

 

[FemMecha]

Oh, I was thinking of Trump and his associates. I assumed you were referring to the same.

Oh I'm glad we cleared that up.

The reality is that I don't know what to do with the sociological problem we are presented with having a nearly half of the population buying into Trump. It is like there is a massive cult movement. I've been watching some cult documentaries and started thinking about the way in which some Trump supporters could in part be victim, but I also don't want to fall into a enabling mindset. It has occurred to me the usefulness of studying cult deprograming techniques in counseling psychology. I don't know how to talk to half the people I know anymore. Several of my liberal friends just unfriended every Trump supporter, will even publicly say they are not welcome at their business, etc. I understand where they are coming from because communication has been shut down. The people I know with the business have relatives in Mexico, so the border issue is a direct and clear human rights violation to people they are close to knowing. I share that horror with them.

I saw a meme that said we are like 331 million people just getting out of an abusive relationship. It occurred to me that it is true and some of us are enablers, some in denial, some enraged, some in shock, some sick to their stomachs, but that mindset at least provides a common ground to think about how to approach this sociologically.

Frankly, I think a whole bunch of people besides the folks that voted for him are responsible for Trump. Centrist democrats who have neglected the working class (which now tends not to vote as a consequence) as well as taking minority voters for granted in pursuit of moderate blue state Republicans are also to blame; their failure is on a level of practical politics (winning elections), as well as from a moral and rational level.

I had an enlightening conversation with a friend from the Netherlands who pointed out there is a dismissal of the working class from the Left. Trump calling them the "backbone of America" gave them an identity and value. My friend mentioned how people have worked for all they are worth to put their lives together and liberals can make them feel like it isn't enough. He also mentioned how the conspiracy theories help to make their struggle feel epic.

I would say that liberal ideals are almost too global and abstract to feel applicable to some people. I don't mean this in all cases, but a good way to discuss this is the environment. It is a global issue and by its nature a bit abstract. It is in a way too big for most any human's comprehension, so the Right rejects it and only sees their local community, and the Left can also become myopic focusing on one detail like straws. When we were all told how terrible straws are and were somewhat guilt-tripped if you still use them, it causes frustration. It can be a valid point, but alone won't solve the problem. If we are going to focus on a small detail in the environment, it is smarter to have people focus on their local environment instead of everyone stopping the use of straws. If people start having more focus to save their local environments, that is an ideal that will more easily translate into global policy.

I have family in the most extreme Trump supporting states (who are Biden supporters surprisingly), but they were telling me how many times people use analogies from their direct small world and assume they apply to more global concerns. For example the issue with the Mexican border is compared to coyotes trying to get your chickens. There are all kinds of problems with that analogy, but it shows an inability to think outside of direct, concrete, small experience. If more liberal ideals and concerns could be more accurately translated into local concerns, it would provide people with better analogies for these larger scale issues.

Also, Liberals have been working to secure and applaud a diversity of identities in terms of sexual orientations, ethnicity, gender, etc. There needs to be a way to celebrate the working class identity from a liberal perspective and ideals that makes them feel needed, valued, and provides a healthy ego boost. The same for white males who end up outside the identity celebration. This happens because the identities being protected have a history of being suppressed, but for the pragmatic goal of achieving unity and support, everyone needs that ego boost and identity valuing.

 

[Jaguar]

Tears, I have tears in my eyes from laughing.

 

[Dreamer]

OK, is this for real??

Look, regardless of your thoughts of Trump, we need to acknowledge that he has kept his 2016 campaign promise of bringing our troops home after fighting a freaking 20-year clusterf**k of whatever the Middle East is. To his credit, he hasn’t gotten us into any new wars and he has begun to bring our troops home. Surprise to no one, sadly, the war machine is alive and well and has been actively fending off any challenge. Gotta make that money...

 

[Tater]

I really admire the African American community's ability to hold it together, quite frankly.

[MENTION=13112]Stigmata[/MENTION] [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]
Honestly, I believe that if I were black and living in Trump's America, shit would go sideways real fast.

 

[Stigmata]

I really admire the African American community's ability to hold it together, quite frankly.

[MENTION=13112]Stigmata[/MENTION] [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]
Honestly, I believe that if I were black and living in Trump's America, shit would go sideways real fast.

I find eating mayonnaise in public to be an effective deescalation technique in these times of heightened racial tension.

 

[violet_crown]

I find eating mayonnaise in public to be an effective deescalation technique in these times of heightened racial tension.

Post-spaghetti ‘Murrica.

 

[Lark]

I really seriously got to wonder at the moment, like I dont doubt that Trump's firing of people in the Pentagon and recall of all troop deployments could in part be retaliation for perceived disloyalty but ultimately if all is true and the troops are brought home and the US does cease to be a nation of "perpetual war" then that would be a shock to the military-industrial complex and a real conundrum for the survival of capitalism as we know it.