Trump vs. Biden

[Totenkindly]

The current resident's whole MO has been to create fear and panic. and we're actually supposed to buy that the first real thing, "he didtn want to cause a panic"...riiiiiiiiight.

It's the same gaslighting that's been going on since Day 1.

This is also a situation where you figure out a way to address the issue in a way that minimizes a panic reaction, because you can't simply ignore the issue / pretend it doesn't exist until people start dying. Looking back at the things that were said, though, it literally was about crossing one's fingers and betting on the problem to simply go away -- all seemingly in order to minimize political damage. At very best, it's pure incompetence... and we already know it's not a "very best" scenario based on the last four years of watching the same things unfold repeatedly.

The lies and gaslighting are just the worst. As if the actual things going on aren't bad enough, then you have to listen to the constant posturing and dissembling and self-preening. It's exhausting.

 

[The Cat]

It's the same gaslighting that's been going on since Day 1.

This is also a situation where you figure out a way to address the issue in a way that minimizes a panic reaction, because you can't simply ignore the issue / pretend it doesn't exist until people start dying. Looking back at the things that were said, though, it literally was about crossing one's fingers and betting on the problem to simply go away -- all seemingly in order to minimize political damage. At very best, it's pure incompetence... and we already know it's not a "very best" scenario based on the last four years of watching the same things unfold repeatedly.

The lies and gaslighting are just the worst. As if the actual things going on aren't bad enough, then you have to listen to the constant posturing and dissembling and self-preening. It's exhausting.

It truly is, and if it were just him and his cronies up there, that would be bad enough, but the seemingly cult like following...
[video=youtube;I562JHh8reM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=I562JHh8reM&feature=emb_lo go[/video]
This is from 2 years ago...

This has been a four year shit show, and I honestly really hoped more people would wake up and see that. But lately I'm honestly wondering what he would have to do for some of his died in the wool acolytes to see that he wouldnt stomp on them to put them out if they were on fire? Do these people think he's going to give them something for being his goons? Donald Trump doesnt give things, he takes them and mishandles them till they break, then he flees. He's like a Gremlin in a rubber suit so the sun doesnt cook him.

 

[Totenkindly]

This has been a four year shit show, and I honestly really hoped more people would wake up and see that. But lately I'm honestly wondering what he would have to do for some of his died in the wool acolytes to see that he wouldnt stomp on them to put them out if they were on fire? Do these people think he's going to give them something for being his goons? Donald Trump doesnt give things, he takes them and mishandles them till they break, then he flees. He's like a Gremlin in a rubber suit so the sun doesnt cook him.

I don't know how to resolve it.

It is one of those things where the solution is not workable: Where people refuse to readjust perspective to something more realistic, typically the only way to fix that is to put them in a reality where they get exactly what they think they want, with no other recourse, then let them experience the full ramifications of that decision so that they can finally sort things out.

In this, it would simply be by grouping everyone together under the leadership of their master and letting them experience the full ramifications of that leadership without anything else to bail them out or soften the blow. Let it run its course. In such a scenario, there is nothing else to blame, nothing else to make the enemy. People just get exactly what they think they want, then experience the consequences.

But that isn't really something that works on this kind of scale because you can't separate people out into their own self-enclosed environment.

 

[The Cat]

I don't know how to resolve it.

It is one of those things where the solution is not workable: Where people refuse to readjust perspective to something more realistic, typically the only way to fix that is to put them in a reality where they get exactly what they think they want, with no other recourse, then let them experience the full ramifications of that decision so that they can finally sort things out.

In this, it would simply be by grouping everyone together under the leadership of their master and letting them experience the full ramifications of that leadership without anything else to bail them out or soften the blow. Let it run its course. In such a scenario, there is nothing else to blame, nothing else to make the enemy. People just get exactly what they think they want, then experience the consequences.

But that isn't really something that works on this kind of scale because you can't separate people out into their own self-enclosed environment.

Yeah...
Ever read Needful Things? I feel like that's happened on a national scale.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah...
Ever read Needful Things? I feel like that's happened on a national scale.

It was one of my less favorite King books... and it was waaaaay too long.

 

[The Cat]

It was one of my less favorite King books... and it was waaaaay too long.

It was a slow burn, but I tend to like that in my horror-- but that's a tale for a different thread lol, in this case this situation reminds me of that, because I can really see how for sale things seem to be. And perhaps it was always there, beneath the surface, but this...IT's so bleakly out in the open, so brazenly done, and seeing it reflected by the reactions of his people it's...disturbing

 

[tinker683]

I don't know how to resolve it.

It is one of those things where the solution is not workable: Where people refuse to readjust perspective to something more realistic, typically the only way to fix that is to put them in a reality where they get exactly what they think they want, with no other recourse, then let them experience the full ramifications of that decision so that they can finally sort things out.

In this, it would simply be by grouping everyone together under the leadership of their master and letting them experience the full ramifications of that leadership without anything else to bail them out or soften the blow. Let it run its course. In such a scenario, there is nothing else to blame, nothing else to make the enemy. People just get exactly what they think they want, then experience the consequences.

But that isn't really something that works on this kind of scale because you can't separate people out into their own self-enclosed environment.

This has been my own conclusion for a long while now.

If the last four years hasn't put you in a position where you believe that Trump needs to rocketed out of the oval office Looney Toons style with a giant spring chair and everything, then I believe there is no collection of words in any language anywhere I can possibly string together to show you why he needs to go. It's just not possible.

So I'm just going to vote for Biden and pray that enough of my fellow countrymen are willing to save the country from everyone else

 

[Totenkindly]

It was a slow burn, but I tend to like that in my horror-- but that's a tale for a different thread lol, in this case this situation reminds me of that, because I can really see how for sale things seem to be. And perhaps it was always there, beneath the surface, but this...IT's so bleakly out in the open, so brazenly done, and seeing it reflected by the reactions of his people it's...disturbing

Well, IT was just as long but was far more interesting and better written -- Needful Things felt like a needless rehash of prior books.

But I get what you're saying -- basically the guy is like the devil, poisons everyone against everyone else (well, not quite accurate, he takes the poison that is already lurking in them and fans it into full blown vitriol), and watches happily as the town destroys itself. He's just the catalyst that brings the evil to the surface.

 

[The Cat]

Well, IT was just as long but was far more interesting and better written -- Needful Things felt like a needless rehash of prior books.

But I get what you're saying -- basically the guy is like the devil, poisons everyone against everyone else (well, not quite accurate, he takes the poison that is already lurking in them and fans it into full blown vitriol), and watches happily as the town destroys itself. He's just the catalyst that brings the evil to the surface.

The IT was a typo I didnt notice.IT's was supposed to be It's my bad.

But yes, yes that's it exactly. That's what scared me about that book. And that's what scares me about this now.

 

[Totenkindly]

The IT was a typo I didnt notice.IT's was supposed to be It's my bad.

But yes, yes that's it exactly. That's what scared me about that book. And that's what scares me about this now.

Oh, lol.... darn pronouns.

I was referring to Needful Things above, with the curiosity shoppe owner.

But IT also had that at play, and more organically done. I think one of the terrible things about IT (and they showed it in the film too!) was also how complicit the town was, IT's presence had slowly seeped into the city and stoked everything. Small case in point, when Ben is being assaulted and the car drives by slowly but the driver/family refuses to intervene, and there are Pennywise balloons visible in the backseat that no one but Ben could see. The poison there is invisible except to a few, but it's pervasive on a communal level.

It's pretty relevant today.

 

[The Cat]

Oh, lol.... darn pronouns.

I was referring to Needful Things above, with the curiosity shoppe owner.

But IT also had that at play, and more organically done. I think one of the terrible things about IT (and they showed it in the film too!) was also how complicit the town was, IT's presence had slowly seeped into the city and stoked everything. Small case in point, when Ben is being assaulted and the car drives by slowly but the driver/family refuses to intervene, and there are Pennywise balloons visible in the backseat that no one but Ben could see. The poison there is invisible except to a few, but it's pervasive on a communal level.

It's pretty relevant today.

It is next on my King Reading list.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

Stupid question: how do pollsters determine who is likely voter ?

 

[Red Memories]

Stupid question: how do pollsters determine who is likely voter ?

Usually they survey people. Or on election times, they will stand outside and ask the voter who they voted for, assuming honesty. I think it is likely why all the polls showed Hilary winning in 2016, people sorta banded together to lie and say they voted for her when they did not. It showed how dishonest polls can be.

 

[Totenkindly]

Usually they survey people. Or on election times, they will stand outside and ask the voter who they voted for, assuming honesty. I think it is likely why all the polls showed Hilary winning in 2016, people sorta banded together to lie and say they voted for her when they did not. It showed how dishonest polls can be.

I'm sorry, there's no sense in people actively lying on an exit poll. It typically is just bad canvassing / positioning of the exit polls to not capture a proper sample.

Along with that, I think what we saw was a (1) systematic issue in polling up to the election and (2) a LOT of undetermined voters (what was it? 15%?) in the face of two candidates a lot of people really really disliked. 538 started talking about this shortly before the election and saying there could be a massive problem with the polling but were dismissed.

 

[Red Memories]

I'm sorry, there's no sense in people actively lying on an exit poll. It typically is just bad canvassing / positioning of the exit polls to not capture a proper sample.

Along with that, I think what we saw was a (1) systematic issue in polling up to the election and (2) a LOT of undetermined voters (what was it? 15%?) in the face of two candidates a lot of people really really disliked. 538 started talking about this shortly before the election and saying there could be a massive problem with the polling but were dismissed.

that is an issue. I wonder how many people feel very undecided as it is now as well.

I mean, both candidates at best were morally corrupt individuals with somewhat criminal history in which neither should have been our options. Clintons have quite the messy track record themselves. I don't know why the DNC tried to cheat for Hilary. No one wanted her.

 

[ceecee]

Stupid question: how do pollsters determine who is likely voter ?

Determining Who Is a ’Likely Voter’ | Pew Research Center

I've never asked anyone point blank if they intend to vote or not. There are also databases used to identify voters and their leans - strong D, strong R and so on.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Determining Who Is a ’Likely Voter’ | Pew Research Center

I've never asked anyone point blank if they intend to vote or not. There are also databases used to identify voters and their leans - strong D, strong R and so on.

Just as I thought the whole process is a little bit of a gamble (since it should be by definition - likely voter).

The databases are on individual level or this is more on community level ?

 

[ceecee]

Just as I thought the whole process is a little bit of a gamble (since it should be by definition - likely voter).

The databases are on individual level or this is more on community level ?

Party level, nationally down to county level. The voter rolls themselves are public information held and maintained by each state. Although how well is up for debate, depending on the state. This is what happens when a country has no coherent national election oversight or organization. I'm familiar with the DNC database, I'm sure the RNC has the same thing.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

The current resident's whole MO has been to create fear and panic. and we're actually supposed to buy that the first real thing, "he didtn want to cause a panic"...riiiiiiiiight.

If you replace "people" with "stock market", then it starts tracking. Because yeah, pretty much his entire cult-like hold over people is dependent on making them panic about various boogeymen (one of them being, of course, that Democrats are inflating the seriousness of coronavirus to make him look bad). But it IS believable that he didn't want the stock market to take a hit.