Humans and Competition

[Jaq]

Humans are naturally competitive, as are all creatures. If you took away the need for competition, what do you think would happen? Would humans become indolent and decadent, or would they become something entirely different?

 

[Lark]

Humans are naturally competitive, as are all creatures. If you took away the need for competition, what do you think would happen? Would humans become indolent and decadent, or would they become something entirely different?

What is your understanding of "indolent and decadent"?

Does competition apply to all equally presently? Has it ever?

 

[Jaq]

What is your understanding of "indolent and decadent"?

Does competition apply to all equally presently? Has it ever?

I'd say that we have a competitive society. The sad thing that even things like misery and sadness even have competition. Hence the whole "First world problems" meme. Personally I think that's insane, as while that meme may be a joke it does show the whole "Quit your whining, someone out there has it worst than you." mantra that seems to get repeated and used to minimize other people's troubles. People compete, that's a fact. There are few too resources out there for people to live in a peaceful, non-competitive way.

What I was suggesting in the OP was that would people grow lazy if they didn't have to compete? I wasn't referring to my personal views, I was just attempting to provide food for thought on the subject.

 

[FemMecha]

Maybe they would become more original, unique, and true to themselves.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Maybe they would become more original, unique, and true to themselves.

Yes, I think something like this because competition exists at ego level and is an effort to incorporate something desired into one's persona or crafted identity.

 

[FemMecha]

Yes, I think something like this because competition exists at ego level and is an effort to incorporate something desired into one's persona or crafted identity.

That is an interesting observation. I think one tends to feel more competitive when there isn't an internalized identity in that area.

Some of this idea that originality is at odds with competition comes from experiencing the problem of competition and judging in the arts. Competition is best suited for activities that have external parameters that are the same for each individual like the long jump. One can definitively judge who won the long jump by using a measuring tape. The more original and subjective an activity, the greater the problem of competition. When a long list of people enter a concerto competition there are some measurable attributes like playing the rhythm accurately and steadily, playing physically harder or simpler passages, having control of dynamic ranges, etc. There are elements in music that have a physicality along the lines of the long-jump, even if more complex, detailed, and nuanced. However, the emotional expression of the performer is a subjective element and different judges will be moved differently emotionally based on their own personality preferences. The moment we enter into true individuality is the same moment it becomes problematic to make comparisons.

I like to use the long-jump at one of the the dichotomy for the most measurable, external, non-individual, but objective sort of competition, and then people standing up to read their diaries to see whose is best as the opposite end of the spectrum. What is the best diary? How do you measure it? Is is the most poetic? The most consistent? The most personally meaningful? The most truthful and candid? Shows the most personal growth? The most accurate? What would even be the point of winning "best diary writer". Because it is a private corner of pure individuality and self, it defies the notion of competition which requires comparison and sameness to have any functionality.

 

[The Cat]

To the Fairest...

 

[ceecee]

I'd say that we have a competitive society. The sad thing that even things like misery and sadness even have competition. Hence the whole "First world problems" meme. Personally I think that's insane, as while that meme may be a joke it does show the whole "Quit your whining, someone out there has it worst than you." mantra that seems to get repeated and used to minimize other people's troubles. People compete, that's a fact. There are few too resources out there for people to live in a peaceful, non-competitive way.

What I was suggesting in the OP was that would people grow lazy if they didn't have to compete? I wasn't referring to my personal views, I was just attempting to provide food for thought on the subject.

I think competition will always exist. Perhaps humans can change competition to something less about productivity, materialism and constant consumption. Or at least attempt to make some changes in that better direction.

 

[Maou]

Competition is a sole motivator for a lot of entrepreneurship, purpose, and innovation. It is far too entwined with the ego, (in the sense of psychology) to just say "What would humans be like without competition?". It is akin to saying "What if we got rid of evolution?". While some may not bother with competing, and being true to themselves. They also won't make efforts to improve, and they will be satisfied with whatever base level they are on. Stagnation.

 

[á´…eparted]

If we are to evolve as a species we have to stop viewing competition as a huge virtue and something to constantly aspire to. Competition has it's place, but we so poorly apply it by thinking it always is good and has a use.

 

[ceecee]

Competition is a sole motivator for a lot of entrepreneurship, purpose, and innovation. It is far too entwined with the ego, (in the sense of psychology) to just say "What would humans be like without competition?". It is akin to saying "What if we got rid of evolution?". While some may not bother with competing, and being true to themselves. They also won't make efforts to improve, and they will be satisfied with whatever base level they are on. Stagnation.

So if humans don't see competition your way, as a SOLE motivator of positive traits like purpose and innovation and lol entrepreneurship, they won't make effort to improve and they will be satisfied with whatever base level they are on. Stagnation.

Someday someone will tell you making absolute statements like this is a good way to not be taken seriously at all, by anyone.

 

[Maou]

So if humans don't see competition your way, as a SOLE motivator of positive traits like purpose and innovation and lol entrepreneurship, they won't make effort to improve and they will be satisfied with whatever base level they are on. Stagnation.

Someday someone will tell you making absolute statements like this is a good way to not be taken seriously at all, by anyone.

Sole for A LOT, not all. Learn to read, instead of jumping on the impulse of your contempt.

You sure are trying to win me to your side, aint'cha? Do me a favor, and don't waste your pretentious breath on someone you hate. You are already proving you can't help everyone, clearly.

 

[á´…eparted]

Sole for A LOT, not all. Learn to read, instead of jumping on the impulse of your contempt.

You sure are trying to win me to your side, aint'cha? Do me a favor, and don't waste your pretentious breath on someone you hate. You are already proving you can't help everyone, clearly.

She's right though.

Additionally, competition as only driver, or even the major primary driver is a big factor into why so many businesses are predatory, unethical, and lack a human prospective. It's really bad mentality to have unless it is tempered by something else.

The entrprenural world is rife with problems. It's fortunate that in some areas people entering that world for the sake of being competitive fail at the start, but not all areas are like that and it can still cause tons of damage.

People with these minds have to change, adapt, and include humanistic views into things.

 

[Maou]

She's right though.

Additionally, competition as only driver, or even the major primary driver is a big factor into why so many businesses are predatory, unethical, and lack a human prospective. It's really bad mentality to have unless it is tempered by something else.

The entrprenural world is rife with problems. It's fortunate that in some areas people entering that world for the sake of being competitive fail at the start, but not all areas are like that and it can still cause tons of damage.

People with these minds have to change, adapt, and include humanistic views into things.

Whether or not you think it is ethical, doesn't mean it won't happen. This isn't a morality/ethics debate. It is what would happen if it didn't exist. Competition will always happen, because humans are subject to evolution too. Only few would deny humans are animals. Evolution affects ideas, as much as it does our societies and bodies. Things are constantly changing. And sometimes, changes result in extinction. So be careful how you want to change.

 

[á´…eparted]

Whether or not you think it is ethical, doesn't mean it won't happen. This isn't a morality/ethics debate. It is what would happen if it didn't exist. Competition will always happen, because humans are subject to evolution too. Only few would deny humans are animals. Evolution affects ideas, as much as it does our societies and bodies. Things are constantly changing. And sometimes, changes result in extinction. So be careful how you want to change.

...yeah, it is. Morality and ethics are a part of this. If it isn't, it needs to be.

Your view is fatalistic and deterministic. We cannot view the world from a dog eat dog world lens. To do so pits us all against each other into pointless conflicts. Humans can, do, and should innovate in the absence of competition. It isn't needed or required to make something good. There is far too much of it in the world, it is held in far too high of a regard because people are absolutely obsessed with "winning". You lose sight of the human condition.

 

[Maou]

...yeah, it is. Morality and ethics are a part of this. If it isn't, it needs to be.

Your view is fatalistic and deterministic. We cannot view the world from a dog eat dog world lens. To do so pits us all against each other into pointless conflicts. Humans can, do, and should innovate in the absence of competition. It isn't needed or required to make something good. There is far too much of it in the world, it is held in far too high of a regard because people are absolutely obsessed with "winning". You lose sight of the human condition.

I wasn't talking or mentioning morality or ethics in my post, just the cold hard reality of what is outside of ourselves. Call it what you will, at the end of the day. Innovation requires competing ideas. You cannot have two things, and expect zero choice. You are literally promoting people doing whatever they want. So you want no standardize model. Which is ineffective in society. Choice implies competition. Because naturally, people will select the idea that they think suits them the most. There will always be a preference. Like a manual vs automatic. Humans have variety, just as they have a variety of preference. Your thinking is too black and white. It isnt even a matter of good or bad, but people will select things. Thus it is a competition. The "Winning" aspect you mention, only represents one individual Not all of society. Which is where I am talking from. Whether or not someone "wins" by people selecting their product over something else, isn't what I am talking about. I am saying that the selection of some product over another, will always exist.

 

[á´…eparted]

I wasn't talking or mentioning morality or ethics in my post, just the cold hard reality of what is outside of ourselves. Call it what you will, at the end of the day. Innovation requires competing ideas. You cannot have two things, and expect zero choice. You are literally promoting people doing whatever they want. So you want no standardize model. Which is ineffective in society. Choice implies competition. Because naturally, people will select the idea that they think suits them the most. There will always be a preference. Like a manual vs automatic. Humans have variety, just as they have a variety of preference. Your thinking is too black and white. It isnt even a matter of good or bad, but people will select things. Thus it is a competition. The "Winning" aspect you mention, only represents one individual Not all of society. Which is where I am talking from. Whether or not someone "wins" by people selecting their product over something else, isn't what I am talking about. I am saying that the selection of some product over another, will always exist.

You... don't get my point nor ceecee's point.

I tried.

 

[Maou]

You... don't get my point nor ceecee's point.

I tried.

Not hard enough. If you were as smart as you claimed to be, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Big corporations just stuck out their piggish hands asking for stimulus money and got it. The lack of morality within the competitive system is hurting working folks. That's my thinking on it. I might be wrong somewhere.

 

[ceecee]

Big corporations just stuck out their piggish hands asking for stimulus money and got it. The lack of morality within the competitive system is hurting working folks. That's my thinking on it. I might be wrong somewhere.

All true. Capitalism requires competition but US is largely corporate socialism and bootstraps for small business.