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2020 Democratic Party primary thread

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Yeah, probably. But again, it's still early. The general election is still many months away. I usually don't even pay attention to politics this early in the election cycle. Things sometimes shift around as the primary season grinds on, and I like to keep an open mind. That's the way us independents like to think. :)

I can see two silver linings.

First, Bloomberg wasted a lot of his money. That's hilarious.

econd, it's probably better for a more left point of view in the long term, if not the short term. We can just take the opportunity to get stronger. I don't think we're going away. Folks I talked to tonight have been active for a long time through things like Occupy Wall Street and even before that. The same people are around as movements come and go, and it seems to me that the movements have only been getting more powerful. The event I attended at the bar was certainly pretty full.

The worst thing that could happen for us would be if Sanders wins the nomination and lose the general. It's a risk I'm willing to take (and I had more doubts about making it through the primaries than winning the general, anyway), but if we're off the hook for that, maybe that's not so bad.
 

Tennessee Jed

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econd, it's probably better for a more left point of view in the long term, if not the short term. We can just take the opportunity to get stronger. I don't think we're going away. Folks I talked to tonight have been active for a long time through things like Occupy Wall Street and even before that. The same people are around as movements come and go, and it seems to me that the movements have only been getting more powerful. The event I attended at the bar was certainly pretty full.

All legitimate points. I myself date from the hippie era, with its mottos like "Turn on, tune in, drop out," and so on.* That history is the backstory for my partiality for protest votes.

* Turn on, tune in, drop out - Wikipedia

As you say, people don't disappear. And the march of history is toward the social left across time. Today is much more liberal than when I was growing up. It's just that change is incremental: The changes wrought by one administration get overturned by the next. It's better to look at things long-term, as you suggest. The long-term favors social change.
 

á´…eparted

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Tonight's results weren't as shocking as I expected them to be, but far far more depressing than I anticipated to experience it.

This 100% clinches (not that much more was needed, I've been at 90% for the past few months, waiting on tonight to provide final direction). I am utterly done with this country in every way. More so at the populace than the politicians vying for their support actually. It's never going to improve, it's never going to get fixed. Too few people understand that the way things have been run for the past 40+ years aren't working because the GOP exploits it. They will continue to exploit Biden. I wasn't and am not confident Bernie could actually change things, I've never even been that huge of a fan of him, but at minimum he would at minimum show us if it were possible. If he can't even make it this far, it's not going to happen, ever.

Over the rest of the year I will be devoting my energy into moving abroad to Germany, with the intention of gaining permanent residency and eventual citizenship. I am fortunate that I have a PhD as it makes it very doable. I don't actually want to leave. It's not easy, I know no one abroad, and I am not sure if my health will improve enough for me to set up root there. I might not make it. I see nor feel any future for myself in the US though. To stay guarantees my death. I've resented living here since childhood due to the staggering bigotry and blind eyes turned to it, and the hardship it imposes on the majority of the country. I am disgusted at so many people and their ignorance and lack of compassion for all those who live here and those who live outside of the US. I am appalled at the intellectual dishonesty and laziness of so many. The older I get, the worse it all gets. The culture in the United States is such bullshit. Germany will only be a marginal improvement, but it will provide in areas that are key to allowing me to at least try to pursue a secure life with basic needs met.

I am not confident Biden will beat Trump, and if he doesn't, the entire world is no longer safe, and leaving the country will offer me only marginal peace and hope.
 
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Tonight's results weren't as shocking as I expected them to be, but far far more depressing than I anticipated to experience it.

This 100% clinches (not that much more was needed, I've been at 90% for the past few months, waiting on tonight to provide final direction). I am utterly done with this country in every way. More so at the populace than the politicians vying for their support actually. It's never going to improve, it's never going to get fixed. Too few people understand that the way things have been run for the past 40+ years aren't working because the GOP exploits it. They will continue to exploit Biden. I wasn't and am not confident Bernie could actually change things, I've never even been that huge of a fan of him, but at minimum he would at minimum show us if it were possible. If he can't even make it this far, it's not going to happen, ever.

Over the rest of the year I will be devoting my energy into moving abroad to Germany, with the intention of gaining permanent residency and eventual citizenship. I am fortunate that I have a PhD as it makes it very doable. I don't actually want to leave. It's not easy, I know no one abroad, and I am not sure if my health will improve enough for me to set up root there. I might not make it. I see nor feel any future for myself in the US though. To stay guarantees my death. I've resented living here since childhood due to the staggering bigotry and blind eyes turned to it, and the hardship it imposes on the majority of the country. I am disgusted at so many people and their ignorance and lack of compassion for all those who live here and those who live outside of the US. I am appalled at the intellectual dishonesty and laziness of so many. The older I get, the worse it all gets. The culture in the United States is such bullshit. Germany will only be a marginal improvement, but it will provide in areas that are key to allowing me to at least try to pursue a secure life with basic needs met.

I am not confident Biden will beat Trump, and if he doesn't, the entire world is no longer safe, and leaving the country will offer me only marginal peace and hope.

I'm not ready to go blackpilled, personally, although I can't speak for anyone except myself. I'm really glad I went out and drank with people watching the results rather than sat alone and watch the results. Fuck, I even figured out how to approach strangers in that situation. I think we can make things better, but we gotta figure out how to do it ourselves, because we sure as hell can't trust the establishment to do so. It's a monumental task, but I think we're up to it. Elections are just part of the picture.

I'm not a person who gives up very easily (not that it's always a good thing).
 

á´…eparted

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I'm not ready to go blackpilled, personally, although I can't speak for anyone except myself. I'm really glad I went out and drank with people watching the results rather than sat alone and watch the results. Fuck, I even figured out how to approach strangers in that situation.

I'm not a person who gives up very easily (not that it's always a good thing).

Bernie is not going to get the nomination.

After tonight the chances are extremely slim. People should keep working towards it because a slim chance is still worth fighting for. That said, I'm being realistic. It's not going to happen. He won't get enough delegates, and the DNC won't allow him to have it without plurality. Why? Because they are collectively so scared of the permanent breakdown of this country's political system if Trump remains in and the wrong person takes his place. Half of them are against sanders fundamentally due to ignorance and corporate ideology. Many are Republicans undercover. They're lost causes, and quite frankly can go fuck themselves and are a large portion of the problem.

The other half have real concerns that are two fold, one I actually strongly agree with and is the core reason I am wary of Sanders. First, they only trust someone with extreme first-hand experience to undo the internal domestic damage trump caused, and to do it in fast and stable way. Bernie could do this, but they don't want to risk it since him and his replacement won't entirely play to domestic norms. It's a fair discussion and debate to have, and one I am not entirely decided on myself. The other more pressing matter is foreign policy. The DNC fundamentally don't trust Sanders do undo the severe foreign policy damage and broken diplomatic relations Trump caused. They (rightfully so) see only Biden as the one who can pull this off. Foreign policy is by far the most complicated issue, and one that the general public has the weakest understanding of, as well as (particularly in the current era) the voters don't care about. Largely out of necessity because domestic issues are so bad there is simply no room to care. The fact of the matter is though, the world does exist on a global political stage. Unlike on a domestic level where we have fairly decent power to change and modify norms, globally we don't. As dumb and boring as it is, the world does NOT trust this country, or its leaders anymore, and they have good reason to believe so. Simply putting someone new in is not going to change that overnight. It's going to take years and years and years of very diplomatic massaging to get back to a more level center. It's so frustratingly dumb (because it shouldn't matter), but it really matters a lot who is in charge. There is little reason to think world leaders are going to respect sanders or his decisions, nor is there much of a reason to believe Sanders would make the correct moves against our largest global advesaries; Russia and China. He's more likely to be ineffectual, or overstep and impart retalliation. Given Sander's reputation of sticking to his guns, a lot of politicans assume he'll operate in a similar way on foreign policy matters, and you can't do that. I'm not sure if he would, I want him to do it well but a big portion of me thinks he'll bungle it.

The extenstial threat that Russia has over us, and the world is staggeringly massive. The public really don't have a sense of this because there are no ground wars that are visible, and much of it is more "hidden". The public isn't able to know the details of Foreign policy out of necessity. The DNC has a lot of experience with individuals who spend their lives on it, and one of their major mistakes is not communicating this. They are really terrible at communicating this message and it is one of their greatest follies. Worse, it's only a small portion within the DNC that get's this. One of the better things the Obama administration did was manage foreign policy well. Perfect, hell no, but it was done well for the hand that was dealt. Biden was involved with it, so they have legitimate precedent and trust that he would be able to repair much of that, and continue that work. They're really scared (for good reason) that if this isn't fixed properly everything else is going to go belly up. Like it or not foreign policy is a bedrock item we have to care for. To them, the situation is so do-or-die that they will overrule what they see as a naïve and uninformed voting block to secure those bedrock items.

In many ways, the US has so many severe problems. Many decades in the works, and many more caused by trump. It is impossible to fix all of them fast enough, which is a major reason why I think this country is toast; it's just a question of how. If Biden gets it, we'll at least have a return to foreign policy safety, but our domestic issue will rot and explode sort or rendering that security moot. Sanders would more likely fix our domestic problems and start us on a road to recovery, but there's a real chance he could ignorance-influenced misstep or simply neglect foreign relations and diplomacy causing that to implode, which would render things at home moot (but probably on a delayed timescale).

And none of this even touches climate change, so it probably is all for naught.
 

Tellenbach

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I was right about Biden being the greatest threat to Trump's re-election. Joy Reid of MSNBC explained it like this: many black voters want to vote for Obama but they can't. However, Biden is Obama's guy, so they're going to support him. Bernie has no chance of beating Trump because he's unpopular with seniors and black voters.

Biden's challenge is getting apathetic millenials to turn out in the general election. Ideally, we'll have a contentious brokered convention and all the Bernie bros stay home and don't vote.

Warren should've listened to me and dropped out of the race 2 weeks ago. Coming in 3rd in her own state is kind of embarrassing.
 

Virtual ghost

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We don't know that he'd lose because we've never tried it. On the other hand, Biden will run the exact same campaign as Hillary, and we know how well that worked.


True, but 2020 isn't 2016. In other words Trump is no longer some unfamiliar new face. Plus 2020 will obviously be the war of ideologies rather than guy A vs. guy B. Therefore personal flaws wouldn't count that much. Everyone knows both guys are flawed.

As I said democrats in 2020 only have to keep what they have and get back those 3 key midwestern states that were lost with 0.5% margin in 2016. Therefore even Biden has a shot of winning if there is any wisdom in his GE campaign staff (what remains to be seen)





However the moment when it became obvious that the establishment is consolidating the vote it was fairly obvious that this will end something like this. Since plenty of percentages got summed up and that probably sucked in some votes that perhaps wouldn't come into the hold. After all it seems that Bloomberg voters also got the message that came out of big consolidation.
 

Tomb1

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Damn, racist Bloomturd got 40+ delegates. 16+mill a delegate...what a return on his investment. Complete dope, dropped over half a billion dollars into a campaign he had no shot to win given his past record and statements on stop and frisk. He would have done better if he made an incumbency challenge as a republican.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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So it looks like this election may be between two republicans, just like last time. But hey, electability matters more than anything else, right?
 

anticlimatic

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Feel the bern. Thank you dems for pushing the socialist hellscape back at least four more years. I think we should partition a chunk of the states off for them to all live and attempt their experiments. Could probably just do it on secondlife, since the internet is where most of them live already.
 

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Looks like Biden will be our next president.

I ran into him a couple years ago at the Admiral's Club in Regan airport in DC. I walked two feet from him as he was talking on his cell phone. He was next to a hallway and there wasn't any way to avoid walking by him because it was on the way to the bathroom. I always struck me that he was in a lounge with everyone else after he'd been vice president for eight years.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Looks like Biden will be our next president.
...

No. Trump will be president for 5 more years. Biden getting the nomination is about appeasing Democratic donors and trying to hold on to the House. They are conceding the election and everything from here on is kabuki theater.
 
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I was right about Biden being the greatest threat to Trump's re-election. Joy Reid of MSNBC explained it like this: many black voters want to vote for Obama but they can't. However, Biden is Obama's guy, so they're going to support him. Bernie has no chance of beating Trump because he's unpopular with seniors and black voters.

Biden's challenge is getting apathetic millenials to turn out in the general election. Ideally, we'll have a contentious brokered convention and all the Bernie bros stay home and don't vote.

Warren should've listened to me and dropped out of the race 2 weeks ago. Coming in 3rd in her own state is kind of embarrassing.

Possibly, she's getting a backroom deal for sticking in there and splitting off some of the Bernie votes. Someone's promised to give her so much money for a Netflix special or some crap like that.
 
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No. Trump will be president for 5 more years. Biden getting the nomination is about appeasing Democratic donors and trying to hold on to the House. They are conceding the election and everything from here on is kabuki theater.

You said yourself you wouldn't have voted for Sanders anyway. You're just a Trump guy, even though you try to position yourself as something else. I'm getting really tired of the latter.

Not saying Trump won't win, but at this point, I think you're just being disingenuous.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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No. Trump will be president for 5 more years. Biden getting the nomination is about appeasing Democratic donors and trying to hold on to the House. They are conceding the election and everything from here on is kabuki theater.

And I don't even expect them to learn their lesson by 2024.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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You said yourself you wouldn't have voted for Sanders anyway. You're just a Trump guy, even though you try to position yourself as something else. I'm getting really tired of the latter.

It's baffling too, because I seem to remember him talking about being in support of universal healthcare and some economic regulations in the past.

That is about as radical as Bernie gets. Universal healthcare, oversight of capitalism, and more affordable education. We GuDdAh StOp CoMmUnIsT BeRnIe hE iZ tWo rAdIcAl
 
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