2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

The typical talking point for that: "How are you going to pay for it? We can't afford it!" Usually as a way of leading back to how raising taxes is necessary to make it work to deter people from it, yet considering the average family plan comes out to around $1,200 a month, isn't healthcare an indirect form of taxation in itself given that it's all but mandatory for most families?

pretty much

 

[ceecee]

The typical talking point for that: "How are you going to pay for it? We can't afford it!" Usually as a way of leading back to how raising taxes is necessary to make it work to deter people from it, yet considering the average family plan comes out to around $1,200 a month, isn't healthcare an indirect form of taxation in itself given that it's all but mandatory for most families?

I just walked my neighbor through his two employer health care choices. $4500 deductible and $480/mo or $7500 and $320/mo. No rx for either.

I want to scream.

 

[Stigmata]

I just walked my neighbor through his two employer health care choices. $4500 deductible and $480/mo or $7500 and $320/mo. No rx for either.

I want to scream.

What's funny is with those intent preserving the healthcare status quo, if you apply how M4A benefits them on an individualized context, they'll more often than not at least be willing to agree that it would be a beneficial change to them, yet when the same concept is applied on a macro level they immediately revert back to the "but mah freedom of choice!" mindset.

In reality your own choices are only being tied to your employer to maintain either your high-deductible, high co-pays plan, an even more expensive yet lower deductible plan, or somehow qualify for medicare and be forced to accept what little it does cover -- the illusion of choice is a helluva drug.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I miss the better health plans of 20 years ago. $5 surgery, $5 root canal, $3 prescriptions, no deductible, no co-insurance. But that was a "evil" HMO and the insurance industry largely killed those off.......

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Now the WaPo is claiming Russians are helping Bernie....

Ugh, so predictable and so stupid.

 

[Stigmata]

Now the WaPo is claiming Russians are helping Bernie....

Ugh, so predictable and so stupid.

I've heard interference is towards Trump's reelection. Don't be surprised if he loses the election and decides not to relinquish the presidency citing the election was illegitimate due to foreign interference -- with all the other crazy and unorthodox things that have happened with this administration, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[ceecee]

What's funny is with those intent preserving the healthcare status quo, if you apply how M4A benefits them on an individualized context, they'll more often than not at least be willing to agree that it would be a beneficial change to them, yet when the same concept is applied on a macro level they immediately revert back to the "but mah freedom of choice!" mindset.

In reality your own choices are only being tied to your employer to maintain either your high-deductible, high co-pays plan, an even more expensive yet lower deductible plan, or somehow qualify for medicare and be forced to accept what little it does cover -- the illusion of choice is a helluva drug.

They have two little kids and he was like - I think we'll come canvass with you guys this weekend. While I appreciate the help, it does nothing for them now. I dare anyone to tell them they would be better off with their shit employer choice vs M4A.

 

[Maou]

I just walked my neighbor through his two employer health care choices. $4500 deductible and $480/mo or $7500 and $320/mo. No rx for either.

I want to scream.

Yeah, this kinda happened after Obamacare was introduced.

Before my health plan was 35$/month, and no deductible. Now its over 600$/m with a massive deductible (which I refused, and have been paying out of pocket with sliding pay scale). How is dumping more money into Obamacare gonna fix this? I personally find it easier to pay out of pocket, but most hospitals won't even let you do anything unless you have insurance. It is a fucking scam, and it is theft. They are all in cahoots with each other to milk you for every dime you're worth. I right now, need to get a surgery to fix my ruptured ear drum, but they won't let me do it without insurance. If there is one thing I agree with anyone on the Left on, is that healthcare costs are too damn high.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Warren, Biden and Buttigieg dangerously close to going broke - POLITICO

So many candidates going broke....

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yeah, this kinda happened after Obamacare was introduced.

Before my health plan was 35$/month, and no deductible. Now its over 600$/m with a massive deductible (which I refused, and have been paying out of pocket with sliding pay scale). How is dumping more money into Obamacare gonna fix this? I personally find it easier to pay out of pocket, but most hospitals won't even let you do anything unless you have insurance. It is a fucking scam, and it is theft. They are all in cahoots with each other to milk you for every dime you're worth. I right now, need to get a surgery to fix my ruptured ear drum, but they won't let me do it without insurance. If there is one thing I agree with anyone on the Left on, is that healthcare costs are too damn high.

maybe if we pick bloomberg, you can become a democrat.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Now the WaPo is claiming Russians are helping Bernie....

Ugh, so predictable and so stupid.

mother russia wise

 

[Tellenbach]

lol at you posting like you give a shit about people that belong to the Culinary Union.

Private unions are fine; public unions are a major problem. You have corrupt union bosses basically buying politicians and then negotiate contracts with those corrupt politicians. I'm not sure why this practice isn't illegal.

I sometimes call the "free market" approach to such things as divide-and-conquer economics. Each consumer is left to fend for him/herself under the guise of "consumer choice", losing the economies of scale and buying power of the group.

The free market approach works great with everything else. Look at the TV industry; in the 1980s, my 19 inch Zenith was around $300. Now I can get a 55 incher for $300. Why has the cost of TV gone down? Because of competition and innovation. Without competition, there is very little innovation. Why create something new if the government is the only customer and it's going to pay you regardless.

One big problem with collectivist strategies is it eliminates competition and competition is a major driver of innovation. You also sacrifice quality of care in the customer/business owner relationship; that's obliterated by the government. The biggest problem is the inefficiency in delivering service by the government. By the time any value gets to the recipient, 50% of the money has been wasted.

There are some great free market ideas out there that will fix the healthcare industry, such as tort reform and concierge health plans (You pay the doctor directly upfront for a year's service and you get unlimited doctors visits.). None of the Democrats will even discuss tort reform or any real reform.

 

[Maou]

maybe if we pick bloomberg, you can become a democrat.

Lol if Bloomberg was actually considered a Democrat, id be a socialist.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Lol if Bloomberg was actually considered a Democrat, id be a socialist.

but blomberg is 8le8ct@ble

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Private unions are fine; public unions are a major problem. You have corrupt union bosses basically buying politicians and then negotiate contracts with those corrupt politicians. I'm not sure why this practice isn't illegal.



The free market approach works great with everything else. Look at the TV industry; in the 1980s, my 19 inch Zenith was around $300. Now I can get a 55 incher for $300. Why has the cost of TV gone down? Because of competition and innovation. Without competition, there is very little innovation. Why create something new if the government is the only customer and it's going to pay you regardless.

One big problem with collectivist strategies is it eliminates competition and competition is a major driver of innovation. You also sacrifice quality of care in the customer/business owner relationship; that's obliterated by the government. The biggest problem is the inefficiency in delivering service by the government. By the time any value gets to the recipient, 50% of the money has been wasted.

There are some great free market ideas out there that will fix the healthcare industry, such as tort reform and concierge health plans (You pay the doctor directly upfront for a year's service and you get unlimited doctors visits.). None of the Democrats will even discuss tort reform or any real reform.

the free market gave me acorns 12 feet tall

fuk that Nazi China!

 

[Jaguar]

Yeah, as an unemployed person, I'm very comforted by having to pay an $800 premium.

Everything isn't about you. She's a union member. And if she wants to keep her insurance, it's none of your business. Get over it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Everything isn't about you. She's a union member. And if she wants to keep her insurance, it's none of your business. Get over it.

mother russia confirms everything about me. you silly american whore.

 

[Jaguar]

mother russia confirms everything about me. you silly american whore.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

russian bear crush puny american housecat.

 

[Maou]

but blomberg is 8le8ct@ble

I am sorry, your post hurt my brain. eightleeightable? wtf are you on? Jokes are only funny if the majority of people get them if you are in a public space.

Muh serious response.

I prefer to call him "Doomberg" like Dim Bool.