Are you born with it?

[edcoaching]

Innateness and heredity can be two different things. For example, some of our characteristics/problems/strengths develop within the womb. I don't know of any studies on dominant/recessive genes and type, etc. What is known is that the characteristics are present from birth...

 

[redacted]

well i don't think that we should say that just because our parents are nothing like us, MBTI is not hereditary. i can't remember the terms used in genetics, can't remember high school shit too much but say XX and Xx = S and xx = N, if both my folks were Xx's, they'll be S's, yet i could still be an N.

Good point. I don't necessarily think it's as simple as one gene, but I'm sure there is a genetic predisposition towards favoring abstract vs. concrete thought. It seems that nurture could potentially bring this out even against the predisposition, but it would make sense that the predisposition would be there.

 

[SparklingImpediments]

I began showing signs of being INTJ-like after a head injury as a child.

So no, I don't think it's hereditary...

What do you believe you were before your injury?

 

[SparklingImpediments]

And where are they for a N in S-world ?

What does a madman keep up his faith, through aeons of time and through incountable proofs of being wrong ?

Ignorance is bliss... =)

 

[SparklingImpediments]

RE: OP: There is as yet insufficient data for meaningful answer. Maybe.

A very honest answer.

 

[SparklingImpediments]

It's actually underway by a colleague of mine at UCLA and smaller studies have all shown differences in brain patterns when people with different preferences perform the same tasks. The evidence is in and I'll be posting an entry on it shortly.

The research done so far shows that type is innate; culture, family, workplace, environment influence our expression. That's why typing others is so difficult. We have a type but we learn behaviors (or end up OCD or psychotic or a robot or somehow dysfunctional or ostracized...)

Type vs. behaviour... that makes sense... thank you so much for the feedback!

 

[SparklingImpediments]

well i don't think that we should say that just because our parents are nothing like us, MBTI is not hereditary. i can't remember the terms used in genetics, can't remember high school shit too much but say XX and Xx = S and xx = N, if both my folks were Xx's, they'll be S's, yet i could still be an N. i wish i remembered something in biology, it wiuld be so much simpler.

personally, i think some things about MBTI are just in your genes, whereas others are not. N and S could be one for example. my baby sister never really questioned anything as a child, i did. i don't think we were raised too differently. something like P vs J could be more nurture.

You're talking about dominant/recessive genes, like in the Punnett square, right? Technically speaking, the term "recessive gene" is inexact because the gene isn't recessive but rather the phenotype (or trait). Also the concepts of recessiveness and dominance were developed before a molecular understanding of DNA and before molecular biology, thus mapping many newer concepts to "dominant" or "recessive" phenotypes is tricky. Many traits originally thought to be recessive have mild forms or biochemical abnormalities that come up from the presence of the one copy of the allele. This implies that the dominant phenotype is dependent upon having two dominant alleles, and that the presence of one dominant and one recessive allele creates some blending of both dominant and recessive traits.
On that note, however... I think it plausible that two Ss could have an N child b/c of the N potentially being recessive in both.
I think nurture shapes a lot still, for sure, but there is something to be said about your core being in nature.

 

[animenagai]

You're talking about dominant/recessive genes, like in the Punnett square, right? Technically speaking, the term "recessive gene" is inexact because the gene isn't recessive but rather the phenotype (or trait). Also the concepts of recessiveness and dominance were developed before a molecular understanding of DNA and before molecular biology, thus mapping many newer concepts to "dominant" or "recessive" phenotypes is tricky. Many traits originally thought to be recessive have mild forms or biochemical abnormalities that come up from the presence of the one copy of the allele. This implies that the dominant phenotype is dependent upon having two dominant alleles, and that the presence of one dominant and one recessive allele creates some blending of both dominant and recessive traits.
On that note, however... I think it plausible that two Ss could have an N child b/c of the N potentially being recessive in both.
I think nurture shapes a lot still, for sure, but there is something to be said about your core being in nature.

thanks for shaping that up. silly biology teachers did me no good . yeah, either way though, we cannot say that types aren't hereditary based on such shallow judgment.

 

[INTJMom]

thanks for shaping that up. silly biology teachers did me no good . yeah, either way though, we cannot say that types aren't hereditary based on such shallow judgment.

They are probably somewhat hereditary, but not entirely so.
There are other factors that come into play.

 

[Ilah]

My parents were both S, but my brother and I are both N. We are the only two children. I only knew one of my grandparents though, so it is a possibility that there is some kind of recessive thing going on.

I agree with entropie's position on nurture. There was no nurture for my N side. I think if was much more of an anti-nurture, in other words nurture designed to make me be more S, less N.

This lack of support for my N-ness is a reason I lean heavily to the born with in side. Why would I stick with a personal type despite all the negative reinforcement if it wasn't hard wired in my brain?

Ilah

You're talking about dominant/recessive genes, like in the Punnett square, right? Technically speaking, the term "recessive gene" is inexact because the gene isn't recessive but rather the phenotype (or trait). Also the concepts of recessiveness and dominance were developed before a molecular understanding of DNA and before molecular biology, thus mapping many newer concepts to "dominant" or "recessive" phenotypes is tricky. Many traits originally thought to be recessive have mild forms or biochemical abnormalities that come up from the presence of the one copy of the allele. This implies that the dominant phenotype is dependent upon having two dominant alleles, and that the presence of one dominant and one recessive allele creates some blending of both dominant and recessive traits.
On that note, however... I think it plausible that two Ss could have an N child b/c of the N potentially being recessive in both.
I think nurture shapes a lot still, for sure, but there is something to be said about your core being in nature.

 

[Lexlike]

my father is an ENTP , and my mother is a sensitive ISFJ. But i guess i m more like my grandfather of father side who is also INTP.My younger brother is an ISTJ or a shy ESTJ... so i basically thinks its a mix of genetics and nurture

 

[arcticangel02]

Father: ESTJ (Te Si)
Mother: ISFP (Fi Se)
Me: ENFP (Ne Fi)
Brother: INFP (Fi Ne)
Sister: ESFP (Se Fi)

The only corellation I can see is that we all use Fi (/Te). Apart from that, we're a pretty good mix of N/S functions. I suppose you could use the genetic argument in this situation, as none of the kids have a function that neither of the parents do, but it doesn't seem like a particularly clear thing.

 

[Kristiana]

I've discussed this with many of my friends, and I've come to the conclusion that one's personality type is hereditary. For example I believe I get the NF from my mother, and P from my father, and E from my grandfather. I've found predominantly observant families do not have Intuitive children, and vice versa. What do you think?

I'm very much N, as is my brother, yet both my parents are very much S. I agree with Ilah's theory about N possibly being recessively heritable.

Nurture did not work to make me more N, either.

Ah who knows, or maybe I was switched at birth.

 

[Kristiana]

Father: ESTJ (Te Si)
Mother: ISFP (Fi Se)
Me: ENFP (Ne Fi)
Brother: INFP (Fi Ne)
Sister: ESFP (Se Fi)

The only corellation I can see is that we all use Fi (/Te). Apart from that, we're a pretty good mix of N/S functions. I suppose you could use the genetic argument in this situation, as none of the kids have a function that neither of the parents do, but it doesn't seem like a particularly clear thing.

Hey, my brother is INFP and sister is ESFP, too!

My parents are ESFJ (mom) and ISTJ (dad).

 

[phoenix13]

I'm very much N, as is my brother, yet both my parents are very much S. I agree with Ilah's theory about N possibly being recessively heritable.

Nurture did not work to make me more N, either.

Ah who knows, or maybe I was switched at birth.

N recessively heritable? Like blue eyes? Like there's a perception gene with an S allele and an N allele (which we'll designate "s"), and if you cross 2 Ss parents you have a 25% chance of having an ss and thus intuitive child? Are you saying this because 25% of the American population is supposedly N?

I do think that it's partly genetic, as in, we're born with some aspect of it, or born with some built-in probability (predisposition) of being one or the other. And maybe our environment tips the scale to some degree. However, I highly highly doubt that this observational theory will neatly show up in our genes the way eye color does. Don't forget that the letters aren't functions in themselves.

EDIT: Hey, doesn't Captain Chick study genetics? Where is she? We need an expert!

 

[SillySapienne]

I've discussed this with many of my friends, and I've come to the conclusion that one's personality type is hereditary. For example I believe I get the NF from my mother, and P from my father, and E from my grandfather. I've found predominantly observant families do not have Intuitive children, and vice versa. What do you think?

I absolutely think one's personality is primarily genetically based/founded with maybe several to many environmental influencing contributing factors.

My father was a hardcore INTP, and my mother is a hardcore ESF.

I think being the youngest of three daughters also contributed to my heightened Ne, Fi and P-ishness.

Regardless, since age five, it has been pretty clear that I have been an ENFP.

 

[Jack Flak]

Maybe it's Maybelline.

My analysis of the meager data: It seems like a lot of people are arguing against innate type encoding because their parents are so different. I've never had any reason to think there would be a connection. Type could be innate, and I wouldn't think it has much to do with what types your parents are.

 

[SillySapienne]

N recessively heritable? Like blue eyes? Like there's a perception gene with an S allele and an N allele (which we'll designate "s"), and if you cross 2 Ss parents you have a 25% chance of having an ss and thus intuitive child? Are you saying this because 25% of the American population is supposedly N?

I do think that it's partly genetic, as in, we're born with some aspect of it, or born with some built-in probability (predisposition) of being one or the other. And maybe our environment tips the scale to some degree. However, I highly highly doubt that this observational theory will neatly show up in our genes the way eye color does. Don't forget that the letters aren't functions in themselves.

EDIT: Hey, doesn't Captain Chick study genetics? Where is she? We need an expert!

Lol, yes, I'm a recently ex-bio major of two years and, alas, genetics is most definitely NOT my forte, but I would definitely say with some confidence, that there is NO N OR S GENE, lol!!!

There is, however, plenty of studies on the heritability of intelligence.

And, you must not forget that you inherit ALL OF YOUR GENES from your parents, and that your parents inherited ALL OF THEIR GENES from their parents, ad infinitum, (excluding genetic mutations, of course).

I know, without a shadow of doubt, that my N-ness has a genetic component strictly because it has been apparent since early childhood and my sister who was raised in the same household as I is a hardcore S.

Also, most attributes are the product of polygenic inheritance.

To be continued...

Perhaps.

 

[Ilah]

Maybe it's Maybelline.

My analysis of the meager data: It seems like a lot of people are arguing against innate type encoding because their parents are so different. I've never had any reason to think there would be a connection. Type could be innate, and I wouldn't think it has much to do with what types your parents are.

Is saying type is innate the same thing as saying it has a genetic component? Is there another way of type being innate without it being genetic/inherited? I have other theories for how type could be innate without genetics but they are all metaphysical explanation. Does anyone know of any scientific explanation for innate characteristics that don't involve gentics?

 

[Jack Flak]

Is saying type is innate the same thing as saying it has a genetic component? Is there another way of type being innate without it being genetic/inherited? I have other theories for how type could be innate without genetics but they are all metaphysical explanation. Does anyone know of any scientific explanation for innate characteristics that don't involve gentics?

That's a tough one. I don't think it could get around DNA, but it could be random still, correct? I'm not a geneticist, and it's not a subject I've done much reading on.

I can tell you (believe me or no) that visual identification and the ease of it can dumbfound me sometimes. Several times in the pic gallery I've thought something like "Wow, he has an extremely similar face to several other ENTPs I've known," and I look over, and it says ENTP. I really start to wonder about the nature of individuality when this happens, even in a slightly mystical way. Not characteristic of me.