2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Maou]

Democratic 2020 Presidential Candidates Ranked – Rolling Stone

I am pretty sure Warren will get the nomination. This will be a battle determined by moderates.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Get ready for a slew of ugly memes and t-shirts that say Pocahontas

 

[Jaguar]

CNN refuses to run Biden-Ukraine ad by Trump campaign | TheHill


Good for CNN.

 

[Jaguar]

Sounds like a VP pitch.

I'm okay with that. He'd make a competent VP.

 

[ceecee]

I'm okay with that. He'd make a competent VP.

Yeah I'm fine with that too.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Get ready for a slew of ugly memes and t-shirts that say Pocahontas

In my book you can deflect this one fairly easily, however you have to go down to your opponents level and just say "Is this the best you got !?".


I mean she is somehow a logical choice since she seems to be a mix of establishment and progressive forces. So potentially everyone in the party can find something here.



(I am trying not to think about all of this but I am failing in that)

 

[Nicodemus]

I hope Biden will drop dead, Harris will self-destruct due to inauthenticity, and then Warren and Bernie make it, with Warren becoming president. If Bernie somehow screws up the general popularity he generated in 2016, I see a path for Buttigieg as well. At this point, though, I feel he is simply too unfamiliar to most people.

Got the details wrong, but Warren is fast materializing. If she picks Biden as VP, I can even see him accepting it again. It is actually the ideal position for him for the next persidential term.

 

[Jaguar]

Got the details wrong, but Warren is fast materializing. If she picks Biden as VP, I can even see him accepting it again. It is actually the ideal position for him for the next persidential term.

He's made it perfectly clear he wants to build upon the ACA, not scrap Obama's legacy and do medicare for all. Warren is too far left for Joe and an extremist to someone like me.

 

[Nicodemus]

He's made it perfectly clear he wants to build upon the ACA, not scrap Obama's legacy and do medicare for all. Warren is too far left for Joe and an extremist to someone like me.

How is any of that relevant?

 

[Jaguar]

How is any of that relevant?

Biden made it perfectly clear that whoever he chooses for VP would also share his positions. What is so difficult to understand? She doesn't share his. Or are you suggesting he sell out everything he believes in to work with a wacko like Warren who can't even answer a question, when asked 4 times?

 

[Virtual ghost]

He's made it perfectly clear he wants to build upon the ACA, not scrap Obama's legacy and do medicare for all. Warren is too far left for Joe and an extremist to someone like me.

Personally I don't find her extremist, for me she isn't even a left wing but center right politician on most issues. (but ok, we had this kind of conversation about how American politics stops somewhere in the mild left zone)


The real question is can USA keep up with the world that for the most part doesn't shy away from various subsidies, single payer healthcare or very affordable college ? The economic progress is more and more related to knowledge and technology, which are hard to develop if your people don't have the basic security and protection (at least until they study). Also as the rest of the world develops the immigration of experts will slow down for sure, especially if social climate remains similar as the last 20 years.


As the joke goes: If democratic party keeps moving this fast towards the left they may even in the foreseeable future reach the actual center.

 

[Nicodemus]

Biden made it perfectly clear that whoever he chooses for VP would also share his positions. What is so difficult to understand? She doesn't share his. Or are you suggesting he sell out everything he believes in to work with a wacko like Warren who can't even answer a question, when asked 4 times?

I said nothing about who will be Biden's VP. I said Biden will be Warren's, because Biden is not going to become president.

I find your assessment of Warren short-sighted and childish. But that's to be expected of someone who is really a Republican at heart.

 

[Jaguar]

I find your assessment of Warren short-sighted and childish.

It's only short-sighted and childish because you don't like it or agree with it. Tough.

 

[Jaguar]

The real question is can USA keep up with the world that for the most part doesn't shy away from various subsidies, single payer healthcare or very affordable college ?

Medicare is a broken system crippled by fraud and abuse; the waste of billions of dollars is untenable. Until that is addressed, I find it ludicrous for any candidate for president to tout medicare-for-all as a panacea of sorts.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Medicare is a broken system crippled by fraud and abuse; the waste of billions of dollars is untenable. Until that is addressed, I find it ludicrous for any candidate for president to tout medicare-for-all as a panacea of sorts.

Ok, fair enough.
Personally I just take it as a code for "give everyone healthcare", so that common people get the general idea.
After all very good chunk of USA doesn't seem to understand how healthcare that isn't just about the money works and therefore "simplified argument" is needed.


But ok, this is just my logic.

 

[Nicodemus]

It's only short-sighted and childish because you don't like it or agree with it. Tough.

It is because it's short-sighted and childish that I don't like it and disagree with it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't want to go into big arguments but towards European mindset calling Warren extremist is simply absurd. True, there are other ways to think about this but towards European standpoint this is so wrong that it can be hard to keep quiet about it. The medicare for all probably wouldn't even become such a big deal in the case that Europeans don't push for such ideas in mass over the internet. Which is because to the most of us US way of doing this is on the ISIS level of acceptable. In my country there are actually decent chances for open revolution on the basis of healthcare privatization and around Europe there seems to be similar story. Therefore Europeans are sensitive on this topic since the general social agreement is that this is very bad trend. (and that is why most Europeans are pretty vocal about this).

 

[Jaguar]

I don't want to go into big arguments but towards European mindset calling Warren extremist is simply absurd. True, there are other ways to think about this but towards European standpoint this is so wrong that it can be hard to keep quiet about it. The medicare for all probably wouldn't even become such a big deal in the case that Europeans don't push for such ideas in mass over the internet. Which is because to the most of us US way of doing this is on the ISIS level of acceptable. In my country there are actually decent chances for open revolution on the basis of healthcare privatization and around Europe there seems to be similar story. Therefore Europeans are sensitive on this topic since the general social agreement is that this is very bad trend. (and that is why most Europeans are pretty vocal about this).

Are you a U.S. citizen? No. She's so far from center it's ridiculous. So is Bernie. Stop applying your country's politics to U.S. politics. They're not the same. And you know it.

Keep in mind how I view political issues:

https://www.typologycentral.com/forums/online-personality-tests/87092-political-compass-test.html#post2747406

 

[Virtual ghost]

Are you a U.S. citizen? No. She's so far from center it's ridiculous. So is Bernie. Stop applying your country's politics to U.S. politics. They're not the same. And you know it.

Yes, but the point was that if you take a look at the wider picture which is the rest of the world the perspective changes. Therefore this doesn't have something to do with my country, but how world works. Trump is retreating everything into the US borders exactly on the premise that out there in the world there is no longer genuine Capitalism. What is more true than false at this point since the rest of the world doesn't have a problem with mass subsidies, socialized healthcare, big government etc. Therefore my original point was can US survive such ideological isolationism and remain in dominant position ? (which it needs to pay of it's tens of trillions debts).



This is much more complicated than "Your country ..... ".

 

[Jaguar]

Ok, fair enough.
Personally I just take it as a code for "give everyone healthcare", so that common people get the general idea.
After all very good chunk of USA doesn't seem to understand how healthcare that isn't just about the money works and therefore "simplified argument" is needed.


But ok, this is just my logic.

Common people? You mean gullible people. Ignorant people. WOW, HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! Never mind the fact China is producing the majority of active ingredients in generic drugs, the very drugs that have to be used to keep Medicare from falling apart. The demand for cheap drugs is what got us in the fucking mess of accepting adulterated drugs with little to no oversight by the FDA outside the USA. We import it, crap and all, even something as simple as Vitamin C. It's not just crunching the numbers, its a drug supply riddled with impurities, fraud, and corruption at the manufacturing level just like the fraud and corruption at the Medicare claims level. When these facts start hitting the mainstream magazine covers, it's been going on for decades. It sounds new to people, but it isn't.

90% of all medications prescribed to Americans are generics. They’re cheaper, they’re supposed to work the same way, and they receive less scrutiny right from the start. Companies manufacturing generic drugs have to show only that patients will absorb them at the same rate as the name-brand medications they mimic. At least 80% of the active pharmaceutical ingredients, or APIs, for all drugs are made in Chinese and Indian factories that U.S. pharmaceutical companies never have to identify to patients, using raw materials whose sources the pharmaceutical companies don’t know much about. The FDA checks less than 1% of drugs for impurities or potency before letting them into the country.

Bloomberg - Generics


I'm looking at this from a large, systemic viewpoint - not some superficial "Oooooh healthcare for all!" emotional angle, designed to get votes.