2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Virtual ghost]

https://www.typologycentral.com/forums/online-personality-tests/87092-political-compass-test.html#post2747406

I see the edit.
I really am not doing this to piss you off but in a way such tests are actually pretty biased towards English speaking world logic. Therefore this is where you stand in a English speaking world, you stand 50:50 on left right and that is Ok (This is exactly why you seem to like centrist Biden). However if you find Warren or Bernie extremists that means that they have to be pretty far left on this test. But if they are so far left in economy then where are my local politicians ? (not to mention communism that we had). Actually I could add such questions into that test that even the liberal part of the forum would find it cringy, but then the spectrum would be more complete. Actually the last left line is probably still only something like 70% left, however beyond that is no go zone even for liberal America. The very fact that the test asks you what YOU think kinda implies that you can't really score genuine hardcore left on it. I wouldn't joke if I say that I would place Warren somewhere pretty close to you on that map.


But ok, don't mind me this is on the "Just saying level".

 

[Virtual ghost]

Common people? You mean gullible people. Ignorant people. WOW, HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! Never mind the fact China is producing the majority of active ingredients in generic drugs, the very drugs that have to be used to keep Medicare from falling apart. The demand for cheap drugs is what got us in the fucking mess of accepting adulterated drugs with little to no oversight by the FDA outside the USA. We import it, crap and all, even something as simple as Vitamin C. It's not just crunching the numbers, its a drug supply riddled with impurities, fraud, and corruption at the manufacturing level just like the fraud and corruption at the Medicare claims level. When these facts start hitting the mainstream magazine covers, it's been going on for decades. It sounds new to people, but it isn't.


Bloomberg - Generics


I'm looking at this from a large, systemic viewpoint - not some superficial "Oooooh healthcare for all!" emotional angle, designed to get votes.

Ok, I admit that this is bad. I never thought that US would outsource even this, for me medicare for all still implies local and controlled production. (since that is common sense in my book)

 

[Virtual ghost]

If the drug thing is true that kinda explains "Trumpmania" and why vaccines that I am taking are no longer from US company (as far as I know).

This really explains A LOT.

 

[Jaguar]

I see the edit.
I really am not doing this to piss you off but in a way such tests are actually pretty biased towards English speaking world logic. Therefore this is where you stand in a English speaking world, you stand 50:50 on left right and that is Ok (This is exactly why you seem to like centrist Biden). However if you find Warren or Bernie extremists that means that they have to be pretty far left on this test. But if they are so far left in economy then where are my local politicians ? (not to mention communism that we had). Actually I could add such questions into that test that even the liberal part of the forum would find it cringy, but then the spectrum would be more complete. Actually the last left line is probably still only something like 70% left, however beyond that is no go zone even for liberal America. The very fact that the test asks you what YOU think kinda implies that you can't really score genuine hardcore left on it. I wouldn't joke if I say that I would place Warren somewhere pretty close to you on that map.


But ok, don't mind me this is on the "Just saying level".

Biden isn't as intellectual as I prefer a leader to be, but at this particular time and what this country is facing - the possible death of democracy as we know it, I need someone who has instant trust with foreign leaders and can hit the ground running. He has it. They know him. When the hell would I ever need this prerequisite so much? Probably never. I've never seen democracy in jeopardy. Until now. That means this election is not business as usual. I don't give a shit about free kindergarten care or bitching about the rich and stock dividends like Warren is obsessed with, I care about saving my goddamn country from becoming a complete shit hole. Never did I think it were even possible to be where we are at. Never. But I have to admit, I agree with Biden when he says "We're in a battle for the soul of this nation."

As for that political test I posted? Of course you can score hard left. There's several threads around the forum with test results of those who did. I just happen to fall more center, but I already knew that without a test.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Biden isn't as intellectual as I prefer a leader to be, but at this particular time and what this country is facing - the possible death of democracy as we know it, I need someone who has instant trust with foreign leaders and can hit the ground running. He has it. They know him. When the hell would I ever need this prerequisite so much? Probably never. I've never seen democracy in jeopardy. Until now. That means this election is not business as usual. I don't give a shit about free kindergarten care or bitching about the rich and stock dividends like Warren is obsessed with, I care about saving my goddamn country from becoming a complete shit hole. Never did I think it were even possible to be where we are at. Never. But I have to admit, I agree with Biden when he says "We're in a battle for the soul of this nation."

I can see the point here and the choice of potential candidates overall isn't that great. However why focus on foreign leaders when your own democracy is at stake ? You pointed yourself the drug production outsourcing problem and I am getting impression that Biden is exactly the type of person that was leading the game to where it is. This is exactly why Hillary got rejected in 2016, the very fact that it was close with someone like Trump proves that there was something fundamentally wrong here. People are out of ammo and they want "free kindergarten" for a change. The democracy is indeed in jeopardy but it is in jeopardy because concrete economy, nurture and common sense are completely in ruins. I am asking this out of genuine curiosity since I really don't get the whole Biden thing. I am of the impression that the country needs someone that will gently regenerate it's tissue, not someone who is go getter. To me Biden can potentially pass in some other time but he just isn't natural continuation after all of this. When the patient is dying you are much more likely to need a scalpel than a hammer.



America is mostly where it is exactly because you treat people like Warren or Bernie as extremists and with that you have cut out various political thoughts out of the process and regardless of the consequences. Hitler and Soviets came to power exactly because the establishment didn't care too much about the people, which took the gamble since they had nothing to lose. It isn't a coincidence that a German and a Slav are telling you that you got this wrong.

 

[ceecee]

I can see the point here and the choice of potential candidates overall isn't that great. However why focus on foreign leaders when your own democracy is at stake ? You pointed yourself the drug production outsourcing problem and I am getting impression that Biden is exactly the type of person that was leading the game to where it is. This is exactly why Hillary got rejected in 2016, the very fact that it was close with someone like Trump proves that there was something fundamentally wrong here. People are out of ammo and they want "free kindergarten" for a change. The democracy is indeed in jeopardy but it is in jeopardy because concrete economy, nurture and common sense are completely in ruins. I am asking this out of genuine curiosity since I really don't get the whole Biden thing. I am of the impression that the country needs someone that will gently regenerate it's tissue, not someone who is go getter. To me Biden can potentially pass in some other time but he just isn't natural continuation after all of this. When the patient is dying you are much more likely to need a scalpel than a hammer.



America is mostly where it is exactly because you treat people like Warren or Bernie as extremists and with that you have cut out various political thoughts out of the process and regardless of the consequences. Hitler and Soviets came to power exactly because the establishment didn't care too much about the people, which took the gamble since they had nothing to lose. It isn't a coincidence that a German and a Slav are telling you that you got this wrong.

Enlarged for emphasis.

American (as a nation) has never dealt with fascism, genocide and a totalitarian fist that crushed everything and everyone in it's path. Europe has. I would also like to point out that fascism originally meant " a totalitarian political movement linked with corporatism". Mussolini or the Nazi's could never have gotten where they did with out direct buy in from the very wealthy and corporations. Sound familiar? Without demonizing the left and calling it extremism. Sound familiar? Without being voted in or appointed. Sound familiar?

Americans still accepting the centrist, moderate stance - get your head out of the fucking sand. I'd rather put my chips with the working class, the unions, the unapologetic left and anyone able to see beyond the myth of American exceptionalism. Trump snuffed out the final flicker of that candle last week.

 

[Jaguar]

America is mostly where it is exactly because you treat people like Warren or Bernie as extremists and with that you have cut out various political thoughts out of the process and regardless of the consequences.

Ah, yes. The various political thought processes from Warren and Bernie: "Rich people are bad people. BUT WE WANT THEIR FUCKING MONEY NOW." That old thought process is tiresome. And divisive as hell.

Hitler and Soviets came to power exactly because the establishment didn't care too much about the people

That's in the White House. Now.

 

[Firebird 8118]

Honestly, I’m disappointed even with the Democratic Party now. Especially given their skewed perspective of what’s been going on with the Article 370 abolishment in Kashmir... it’s not their problem to worry about in the first place, and they don’t even know the whole story the way my community does. It just makes my blood boil...

I don’t even care who wins anymore. There is not a single politician who I feel I can stand behind anymore.

 

[Tellenbach]

America is mostly where it is exactly because you treat people like Warren or Bernie as extremists

America is the world's lone superpower; we have the world's largest economy, the most powerful military, and we make excellent movies. If that's the result of treating Crazy Commie Bernie and Angry Pocahontas as extremists, why would we want to stop? Much of the world sucks because it isn't more like the USA.

 

[Nicodemus]

I don’t even care who wins anymore. There is not a single politician who I feel I can stand behind anymore.

Any grown-up should be able to see that some politicians are worse than others. Picking the better ones is the only choice anyone has ever had in a democracy.

 

[Jaguar]

Warren - Political affiliation

Friends and colleagues of Warren's from her high school days to the early part of her academic career in the 1980s have characterized her as a "die-hard conservative" with a belief in laissez-faire economics and "surprisingly anti-consumer views". Gary L. Francione, who had been a colleague of hers at the University of Pennsylvania, recalled in 2019 that when he heard her speak at the time she was becoming politically prominent he "almost fell off [his] chair... She’s definitely changed".

Warren was registered as a Republican from 1991 to 1996. She voted Republican for many years. "I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets", she has said. But she has also said that in the six presidential elections before 1996 she voted for the Republican nominee only once, in 1976, for Gerald Ford. Warren has said that she began to vote Democratic in 1995 because she no longer believed that the Republicans were the party who best supported markets, but she has said she has voted for both parties because she believed that neither should dominate. According to Warren, she left the Republican Party because it is no longer "principled in its conservative approach to economics and to markets" and is instead tilting the playing field in favor of large financial institutions and against middle-class American families.

 

[Firebird 8118]

Any grown-up should be able to see that some politicians are worse than others. Picking the better ones is the only choice anyone has ever had in a democracy.

I get that - for me, voting for anyone from the Democratic Party is still better than voting for Trump. I’m just saying that I’m disillusioned af about the whole thing now, and that I no longer feel that either side truly represents my political interests. Being disillusioned has nothing to do with not being a “grown-up” about this.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Enlarged for emphasis.

American (as a nation) has never dealt with fascism, genocide and a totalitarian fist that crushed everything and everyone in it's path. Europe has. I would also like to point out that fascism originally meant " a totalitarian political movement linked with corporatism". Mussolini or the Nazi's could never have gotten where they did with out direct buy in from the very wealthy and corporations. Sound familiar? Without demonizing the left and calling it extremism. Sound familiar? Without being voted in or appointed. Sound familiar?

Americans still accepting the centrist, moderate stance - get your head out of the fucking sand. I'd rather put my chips with the working class, the unions, the unapologetic left and anyone able to see beyond the myth of American exceptionalism. Trump snuffed out the final flicker of that candle last week.

I just want to add that the quoted post was inspired with what is going on in this part of the world. What is going on in Poland at this very moment is pretty much textbook example of my claims. On one side you have authoritarian big government forces that embraced welfare state. While on the other you have more mainstream parties. However it seem that the authoritarian party will get so much more votes that will it have more seats then everyone else combined. Therefore if we apply logic the odds are that they are getting this support mostly because of the welfare part, not the authoritarian part. Between democracy and survival people will choose survival ... it is no brainer. While Trump also would have never won without promises to weaken the corporations and their trade.


Poland votes in parliamentary elections



Also in my own country there is major show going on at the moment. Between the most liberal/globalistic administration we ever had on one side and unions and generally unhappy public on the other. The unions in basic education are on strike and they want decent wages. The entire healthcare is protesting and claiming that the system is being run to the ground (what is more true than false). Unions of higher education and police are at the edge of the mix. Minister of education isn't from the ruling party and therefore it became hostile to the PM over this issue as the minor coalition partner party backs the minister. Therefore it is becoming questionable if the administration will survive. The opposition's presidential candidate said that he supports the unions and the unions said something like "STFU, when you were the PM the situation was even worse!". While what extra fires up people are the great words of progress and budget suficit. Also unions of private companies and unions in general have a number of conflicts with the government, which seems to be trying to play out a referendum on retirement age increase. Even if something like 25% of all adult citizens signed just the petition that this should be a referendum (so imagine how the actual referendum would turn out).


Therefore the local politics completely lost just about any respect from the most people and people don't really believe what the media say. What means that shit might hit the fan seriously since the number of those that have nothing to lose is getting out of hand (and you have pretty much the same all over the developed world). This isn't a joke, this could blow up in a serious global chain-reaction. Especially since in many countries people know how alternatives to modern deregulation looked like and you can't just say "this wouldn't work" or "this is amoral" or whatever.


We are playing with fire for sure.

 

[Jaguar]

I get that - for me, voting for anyone from the Democratic Party is still better than voting for Trump. I’m just saying that I’m disillusioned af about the whole thing now, and that I no longer feel that either side truly represents my political interests. Being disillusioned has nothing to do with not being a “grown-up” about this.

Well, at least you have your eye on the goal. That's more than I can say for some people.

 

[Firebird 8118]

Well, at least you have your eye on the goal. That's more than I can say for some people.

Thanks, I’ll take that as a compliment.

 

[Virtual ghost]

That's in the White House. Now.

That was exactly my point. The question is how did it got to this and for that you must look at what was before before the day when "the revolutionaries" took over. I understand your frustration I really do, but as it stands the middle class all over the place is being wiped out for many years at this point . What tends to turn people into all kinds of radicals and even some bigger companies are imploding as the population is generally losing purchasing power. Economy as we know it today simply can't work if the most of consumer basis is in ruins ... this even isn't just purely a moral issue but one of fundamentals of economics.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What is going on in Poland at this very moment is pretty much textbook example of my claims. On one side you have authoritarian big government forces that embraced welfare state. While on the other you have more mainstream parties. However it seem that the authoritarian party will get so much more votes that will it have more seats then everyone else combined. Therefore if we apply logic the odds are that they are getting this support mostly because of the welfare part, not the authoritarian part. Between democracy and survival people will choose survival ... it is no brainer. While Trump also would have never won without promises to weaken the corporations and their trade.


Poland votes in parliamentary elections

Just for the record the first results are a complete win for the ruling party. To make it more brutal the turnout was almost a record (from what I heard).

The new/old governing party of Poland is big fan of Trumpism on global scale.

 

[Jaguar]

Beto O'Rourke Shames Bill O'Reilly For Doubting Story Of Mom Working Four Jobs: 'She Has To Live In Her Car—While A Disgraced TV Host Like You Makes Millions'


Where the hell did O'Reilly suddenly come from after all this time? What a douchebag.

 

[Tellenbach]

Take-aways from last night's Democrat "debate":

1) it's unwatchable if Marianne Williamson isn't participating; each candidate is more despicable and stupid than the next.
2) Beto thinks criminals would voluntarily give up their guns. Has he always been this stupid?
3) Pocahonta-Care will cost $32 trillion and Pocahontas refuses to say where she's going to get this.
4) Julianne Castro can't name a single friend who disagrees with him, lol.
5) Thanks Gun Grabber Gabbard: We don't think you're deplorable either, but we do think you're an idiot.
6) Billionaire Steyer looks like a horse's ass.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think Klobuchar could be a real dark horse. I'd originally thought that about Gabbard, but I just don't see her having the momentum at this point to make it past the hurdles she needs to jump.

The dems need to run a moderate and focus on the economy and education. They need to leave the wokester shit out of their platform, as it will not resonate with working class people in Minnesota and Pennsylvania. Save debates over the culture war bullshit for when it comes time to nominate and evaluate judges and justices. And whatever the eventual nominee does, please don;t go calling half of voters deplorables. Biden's got too much baggage to be their moderate saviour. I might hold my nose and vote for Klobuchar in the primaries. I like her stance on education. Not everyone needs free tuition. Not everyone needs a 4 year degree. Some people do better with trade school or 2 year college. Certainly people should be able to easily attend a 4 year school if they so desire, but we need to make it easier and affordable for people to attend alternatives like trade school as well. My state has a good selection of 4 year colleges, but our community colleges fucking suck ass--they're overpriced and there aren't a ton of scholarships or assistance for 2 year programs here. In my job, I work with a lot of machine shops, and they always talk about having a hard time finding qualified machinists. No one wants to be a machinist because they assume it's a dirty, low pay job, but the pay can be quite good, especially considering the high demand for machinists. It's a high skill job and there's almost always machine shops looking to hire machinists. But we've been conditioned to frown upon these types of jobs or think less of people who want to take them. Irony is we then end up with thousands of people with bachelor's degrees in subjects like English who end up waiting tables or taking low skill, low pay jobs and sinking further into debt when they're unable to pay their high interest loans. A lot of people go to university because their guidance counselors and parents filled their heads with grand ideas that a 4 year degree would land them with prestigious jobs.

That's another thing dems should fight for. Instead of free tuition and talking about cancelling outstanding loans, they should push for loans that are either zero interest or extremely low interest. And the people who do manage to pay their loans off are understandably going to be resentful if other people have their loan payments waived or forgiven. Then those people might start demanding refunds for the payments they made for their own loans.

We've raised the last couple of generations to believe that anything less than a 4 year degree is below them. Sorry, but college is not for everyone.