Donald Trump's Myers-Briggs Type

[Hermit of the Forest]

Thread temporarily closed for mod review.

 

[Coriolis]

Thread reopened. There is obviously potential for this topic to cross over into politics, but as long as it does not the thread will remain open. So, citing Trump's political positions and reasoning for them to support type analysis is fine. Arguing about the merits of those positions is not.

Carry on.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Not to be a cocky jerk, but this is ridiculous. Apparently we can't handle opinions and politics here anymore, in which case, why even bother having a forum because diversity has been thrown out the window in favor of censorship.

Some of my favorite people have left the forum, and I hate to say it, but I'm starting to see why. I have nothing personally against the mod team, but I don't like the direction your collective strategy has gone as of late.

But yeah... go ahead and move my post to "Off Topic" because you can.

 

[raskol]

I am well versed in ENTJs. My Dad was one! And he was not a materialistic man.

That argument is premised on flawed assumptions, constituting a genetic fallacy:
1. Your dad is/was ENTJ (based on one test score).
2. Your dad wasn't materialistic, so ENTJs can't be materialistic either.

Contrariwise, ENTJs are drawn to status, success, and power, and "materialism" is simply an indicator of a status-signaling lifestyle, particularly as the individuals in question are prone to impulsive behavior.

The key here is to decipher whether he's a Sensor, or an Intuitive. We agree he's an Extrovert. We agree he leans more towards thought, not feeling. It should be quite obvious that he's a Sensor, not an Intuitive. I know theres third and fourth functions but what is he leading with?

I made the case above that I consider the functional axes first, as opposed to the roundabout way of identifying dichotomies. And it isn't until we have clarified which functions are in play that we can ultimately determine whether an individual is a sensor or an intuitive.

That said, the easiest way to type a person in close proximity is to consider his or her interactive style. Is their speech direct or circuitous, clear or cryptic, and do they initiate conversations or are they prone to respond passively? Sorting out these basic questions will get us 75% along the way of typing anyone correctly.

Intuitives see patterns and meanings, are drawn to books and art, very comfortable in the world of ideas.

That's a stereotype of an intuitive thinker that has very little to do with the type in question. ENTJs rarely take the time to read fiction or philosophical works, instead preferring relaxation and meditation to unwind or de-stress. According to mainstream reporting, Trump hasn't read a book in at least 20 years, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's the case with many of the ENTJs involved in business (news items and financial reports are not literature).

Trump is one of the least well-read, most culturally retarded presidents ever. He wants to be in THE HERE AND NOW. He gets bored easily, likes excitement, is a doer and prefers acting to thinking. All much more indicative of a Sensor than an Intuitive.

You're too attached to the idea of the steely-eyed executive, or philosopher-king, excluding the various actual manifestations of that particular type.

As you said before, in quite a poetic way, he captures the 'language of power not academia'.

And the language of power is Te, which is a disguised monologue set out to push adversaries into retreat.

Consider the interactive style of other Te users, such as the smiling, playful Se dom types Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton, and contrast their antics to the snarling, grinning or deadpan TeNi/NiTe displayed by the likes of Trump or Nixon.

Academia is the land of the Intuitive.

The bulk of professorial ESTJs and ISTJs would beg to differ. The combination of Si and Te is actually preferable in a majority of disciplines, especially when it comes to dotting i's and crossing t's (Si).

Look at the two previous presidents before him, as contrast. Obama - Intuitive. Gifted communicator, both spoken and written. Writes his own books.

Empirically oriented typologists have identified Obama as an atypical ESFJ (FeSi-Ti). As in the case with Bernie Sanders, Obama's skills as an orator mirror Fe dom. Contrary to popular opinion, they are both sensors.

George W Bush - Sensor. Not the most gifted communicator. Whole Youtube compliation videos of him mangling words and generally expressing academic stupidity.

Bush-43 types as ISTJ, and his malapropisms are textbook examples of dyslexia. As such, the ridicule directed at such a public figure mirrors the kind of guilty pleasure that we normally eschew in polite society (speech impediments, handicaps, weird features, etc.).

Who are his voter base, mainly? Male blue collar workers. Sensors.

That also goes for Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders, Fe dom sensors who connect with a broad voting base consisting of all types. If you consider the actual data, you'll see that sensors are higher earners on average.

 

[tommyc]

Damn do we have to do this again

As I said in our private chat - my belief that my Dad was an ENTJ was based on me asking him to do the test, and then looking at his results. Doesnt get much more empirical than that. And he certainly fitted the characteristics of 'The General'. Not the easiest man to get along with, put it that way. Always HAD to be in control. Super alpha. In regards to his cultural tastes - probably the most well-read person Ive ever met. He was a journalist, so that shouldnt be a surprise.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Obama and Bernie are ESFJs?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I do think there might be something to the claim of Bush II being an ISTJ. He always reminded me a bit of Carter, a likely ISFJ. Both faced similar mockery and derision from the public for being "simple".

 

[raskol]

Damn do we have to do this again

I wanted to make my arguments visible to the forum and see them countered point by point.

As I said in our private chat - my belief that my Dad was an ENTJ was based on me asking him to do the test, and then looking at his results. Doesnt get much more empirical than that.

That's not empirical at all. By contrast, it underpins the problematic nature of self-testing. My very first MBTI test (16personalities) mistyped me as ENTJ, which is off target. And I am yet to come across a test that I would recommend.

And he certainly fitted the characteristics of 'The General'. Not the easiest man to get along with, put it that way. Always HAD to be in control. Super alpha. In regards to his cultural tastes - probably the most well-read person Ive ever met. He was a journalist, so that shouldnt be a surprise.

I get ESTJ vibes from that short description, as being well-read is very different from being philosophical or an intuitive thinker. If he were duty-bound, procedural, and restrained, then Si would be the likelier auxiliary function.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

sounds like my dad, tommyc. He is an ESxJ

 

[tommyc]

No, believe me he was an intuitive NT. Very much an intuitive thinker. Wrote novels, his last one being sci-fi fantasy (unpublished). My only question is to whether he was an INTJ because he was quite antisocial, very much enjoyed being alone. But I think ENTJ fits.

Here is his blog if anyone would like to read! The Stupidest Man on Earth | On War & Stuff

He used to have one for movie reviews which was really insightful and intellectual but I cant find it right now.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

No, believe me he was an intuitive NT. Very much an intuitive thinker. Wrote novels, his last one being sci-fi fantasy (unpublished). My only question is to whether he was an INTJ because he was quite antisocial, very much enjoyed being alone. But I think ENTJ fits.

Here is his blog if anyone would like to read! The Stupidest Man on Earth | On War & Stuff

I'm not saying you're wrong, however I would say that ability to write science fiction and have the necessary insights to do so well does not preclude one from being a sensor. For example, there was an ESTP member here years ago who had produced music and written science fiction stories. EJArendee or something, though I think he changed his username at some point. Azure Flame, maybe? I also remember miss fortune (who usually typed ESTP) talking about being an avid science fiction reader. For that matter, I think the filmmakers Spielberg and Lucas have both been typed frequently as sensors and both have excelled in producing sci-fi and fantasy stories for the medium of film.

 

[tommyc]

Id type Speilberg as an intuitive, Lucas could potentially be a Sensor. And absolutely! A sensor can write books! I am not saying its the sole preserve of the Intuitive at all. But being literary and well-read, and imaginative, does suggest an Intuitive.

And Raskolnik - as regards to Trump, why dont you give me some reasons why you think hes an Intuitive, rather than a Sensor? Right now Im suggesting ways hes a Sensor and youre countering with "Thats a generalisation! Not necessarily!" which is easy to do.

 

[raskol]

No, believe me he was an intuitive NT. Very much an intuitive thinker. Wrote novels, his last one being sci-fi fantasy (unpublished).

That description is incoherent, and "believe me" is not an argument. Intuitive thinkers very rarely gravitate toward fictional writing. If anything, such activity correlates strongly with xNFPs.

My only question is to whether he was an INTJ because he was quite antisocial, very much enjoyed being alone. But I think ENTJ fits.

ExTJ types are the least personable extroverts, but I am still waiting for an argument that links him to big-picture thinking, problem-solving, assertiveness, or similar traits.

Here is his blog if anyone would like to read! The Stupidest Man on Earth | On War & Stuff

His writing oozes Si, "setting the record straight" and delving into detailed descriptions pertaining to particular moments in history. He also appears to be very traditional, dutiful, and rules-based, which is very xSTJ and not xNTJ at all.

All that aside, I wonder what happened here. It's as though you place a lot of personal value and prestige in your dad's type, whatever it maybe, forgetting that this is a thread about typing Trump.

 

[tommyc]

Damn, your debating technique is starting to grate. You literally take me line by line, try to forensically prove why each line is wrong. When I debate, I am more interested in truth. You seem most concerned with winning regardless of gaining insight or understanding, and to do this you think you must counter every single thing I say!

Also my last post brought things back to Trump. I edited it though, so perhaps you havent read that part. Please look up.

 

[Jaguar]

Intuitive thinkers very rarely gravitate toward fictional writing. If anything, such activity correlates strongly with xNFPs.

Not this shit again. It never ends, man.

I'm ENTJ. One of my degrees is English/Literature/Writing and one of the few people I could talk to on a deep level about books and writing was an INTJ librarian. Honest to god, your posts on this matter have as much insight as wallpaper.

 

[ducks]

As far as neurosis stuff:

Jung described Te types as having an intellectual air about them and having some kind of inferior feeling about their thinking which could lead to humanitarian thoughts and beliefs and things of that sort, sometimes leading to their own ideals that may or may not be realistic or may put them in compromising situations or end up showing their own selfish morality or such thing. Or in having a certain negative predisposition towards other people based on their...eh, we'll say ethical stances. Things related to Fi.

For Se it was about compulsions and lack of care for being that way. Like making a lot of silly errors in judgement and not giving a crap. Almost a lack of refined judgement here.

I think Trump fits Se neurosis much better. I never saw much Fi in Trump. And he seems way too chaotic and unrefined in everything he does to be guided by good intuition.

 

[Jaguar]

Jung used "types" as examples of people with extreme one-sidedness. (Certainly not a state of wellness.) Healing one-sidedness was—and is—the goal.

 

[raskol]

Damn, your debating technique is starting to grate. You literally take me line by line, try to forensically prove why each line is wrong.

That's how argumentation works. If there is a single erroneous claim, the entire chain breaks.

When I debate, I am more interested in truth.

You are not debating--in fact, you are not even communicating--if you don't display the reason behind the argument. As for truth, it must be carried by clear statements and coherent sentences.

You seem most concerned with winning regardless of gaining insight or understanding, and to do this you think you must counter every single thing I say!

I think it may appear that way in a Te v. Ti clash. I'm used to aggressive debating and consistently go straight for the jugular, metaphorically speaking.

Also my last post brought things back to Trump. I edited it though, so perhaps you havent read that part. Please look up.

I see it now. It doesn't counter a single point that I have presented above. Regarding the function pairs, we both agree that he falls on the NiSe/SeNi axis, but I identify his judging functions as Te/Fi and not Ti/Fe, as you do. Start there, arguing in favor of Ti aux and Fe tert, or counter any of the points I made above.

I'm ENTJ. One of my degrees is English/Literature/Writing and one of the few people I could talk to on a deep level about books and writing was an INTJ librarian.

Anecdotal occurrences and outliers do not constitute evidence to the contrary. Retry.

I think Trump fits Se neurosis much better. I never saw much Fi in Trump. And he seems way too chaotic and unrefined in everything he does to be guided by good intuition.

Hence the Te-Se loop overriding his Ni. Add Fi inferior to the function stack, and you're set. This personality is similar to an ESFP caught in a Se-Te loop overriding Fi as well as Ni inferior.

 

[Jaguar]

Retry.

There's no need. Your agenda is clear.

 

[raskol]

There's no need. Your agenda is clear.

And you lack the energy to present your case. Sad.