Donald Trump's Myers-Briggs Type

[Jaguar]

He really does try to look like an 8 in public but the things is that "something" is telling me this is all just acting.

It is just acting.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don’t think you’re tracking what I posted.

Probably not.

I generally keep myself away from the typing threads exactly since I can't relate to the arguments in them, due to HUGE cultural and economic differences. Since once you throw US style of economy through the window you automatically have to rewrite half of typology. Because everything changes it's flavors, desires and paradigms.

If I were to define e3 as all of you do then e3 is almost none existant around me, while I think that definition has to be somewhat expanded to catch my local 3s. Since chaotic regional politics has destroyed pretty much all norms. What is similar to modern American moral relativism, which actually created the Trump as we all know him.

As a matter of fact it is quite possible that the founding father of the Communist government in my country was actually e3, but he certainly wouldn't fit into american stereotypes even if he is trully 3. Actually here you also have the case for similar 3 vs. 8 debate but if you say 8 then this again wouldn't be too perfect fit. Therefore again definition has to be expanded and twisted, so for me it is very hard to stay loyal to the subtle steoreotypes-definitions of enneagram types. What opens the war of definitions that probably can't really be settled.



So it is best to agree that we disagree and end this. Since we probably can't agree on all definitions and I think that I said everything I really had to say on the topic. My vote is for 3w2 (The charmer).

 

[Tater]

The most image focused of image focuses.

Funny how the narrator's voice sounds straight from Unsolved Mysteries or some shit.

 

[Jaguar]

The most image focused of image focuses.

Funny how the narrator's voice sounds straight from Unsolved Mysteries or some shit.

Jesus H Christ. What a loser.

 

[Poki]

The most image focused of image focuses.

Funny how the narrator's voice sounds straight from Unsolved Mysteries or some shit.

Well, when no one else will defend you the solution is obviously to defend yourself. I mean when your always right and a genious why change so that others want to defend you.

 

[Tomb1]

Trump is a SLE-Ti 3w2 so/sp.

He is a clear example of the SLE-Ti cognition running on the Self-Confident, Vain, Conceited, Hyper-Competitive 3w2 character type.

As an SLE, Trump has a cognition for force, brutality and conquering obstacles in the way of his goals. The Ti-subtype likes to be feared, likes to intimidate, fight and hurt people -- the person who wants to be the top dog. Short-fused and abrasive are other notable descriptors for SLE-Ti. Tuco Salamanca is a good example of a fictional SLE-Ti but a 7w8 given his propensity for impulsively acting out (acting out is the 7’s core defense mechanism in the unhealthier levels). Joseph Kony would be a SLE-Ti 9w1 so/sp.

So/sp throws in an overlay of general behaviors onto Trump such as expansion, massive ambition, never showing one’s true intentions and being for one’s plan all the way, “in till the end” (so/sp reflects the purest embodiment of the death drive). Because sx-lasters put the desire for intimacy off into the future, they are more like brick walls with none of the vulnerabilities of the sx-instinct slowing down their ambition. The world would be a boring place without sx-lasters.

I’ve made numerous arguments before for Trump as a 3w2 but within the context of his running for presidency. I’ll just touch upon some of those points here as it has played out in his first term in office. So briefly, the 3's core motivation is to win, to succeed, to be outstanding by metrics that are of high cultural importance, the trophy wife, the lifestyle etc. Failure/losing is the core avoidance of this character type. The core distortion is the belief that one is entitled to praise and special treatment. Thus, the core vulnerability is disdain from others. Type three correlates to the DSM’s narcissitic personality disorder and Theodore Millon’s Egotistical Pattern (which is intended as the healthier manifestation of NPD).

In the unhealthy levels, the 3’s drive to succeed has already taken a dark turn when it is no longer about the pleasure of winning but the pain of failing. Losing can also shake up the 3w2’s entire core and push them over the edge into a suicidal depression (as it did with Rhonda Rousey -- who is SLI-Si 3w2 so/sp). They are vulnerable to disdain from non-admirers. This ultimately comes to eat them up if they can’t insulate themselves from it. The inability to stomach “negative press” starts to control their reactions and formulates the striving for vindictive triumph. The unhealthy 3 character type is prone towards lashing out aggressively and vindictively in response to both direct and indirect sleights on their vanity. This is most evident from Trump’s war on the media.

Now include the outgoing, attention-grabbing, provocative two wing. Among other attributes, 3w2s are hyper-competitive, loud and proud about their accomplishments and great at working a crowd (in other words, LSE-like). They excel in the art of gamesmanship and are drawn to contests of popularity (the "chronic campaigner"). In the average levels, the 3w2 character type makes for a relentless braggart and self-promoter. The signature of this bragging is an relentless advocacy for one’s own image-centric self-delusion….in Trump’s case that’s being the great dealmaker… when Trump argues for what a great dealmaker he is, it’s like a lawyer making arguments for a client, except the client in the 3w2’s case is their self-image, for which the 3w2 has become an over-zealous advocate of). In the game of realpolitik, the vanity makes the 3w2 susceptible to being outmaneuvered as the fame starts to go to their head….they don’t see beyond the tip of their own nose, so to speak. This is what happened to Rhonda Rousey as she lost sight of her training, favoring instead, the autographs, speaking tours, magazine layouts, book deals, interview circuits.

2 wingers try harder to win over people that they need in order to sell/actualize a specific image of themselves. It's the inverse of the 3w2's great capacity for trash talk. Evidence for Trump’s flattering 2 wing came out in all the charm Trump heaped upon Kim Jong Un when Trump needed to broker a deal with Kim that he could parlay into a self-affirmation that he’s the greatest deal-maker (an image he’s been advocating for decades past) and something he can tout on his resume ("the greatest summit between two leaders"), although, in reality, Kim got the better of that deal and anybody could have made if they were willing to compromise away as much as Trump compromised away. The two winger is a lot more canned and self-affirming in their flattering remarks than the four-winger. In other words, what they find to flatter people about are qualities they have idealized about themselves, as follows:

 

[rav3n]

The most image focused of image focuses.

Funny how the narrator's voice sounds straight from Unsolved Mysteries or some shit.

Don't forget the fake Time cover pic that Trump posted in his golf courses.

Time magazine asks Trump to remove fake covers from display at golf clubs | US news | The Guardian

Time magazine has asked the Trump organisation to remove fake covers bearing his image from his golf clubs.

The Washington Post reported on Tuesday that a framed Time cover featuring Trump and the headline “Donald Trump: The ‘Apprentice’ is a television smash!” [sic], seen hanging at Mar-a-Lago in Florida, was faked.

 

[sLiPpY]

Hmm...27 full pages of Donald Trump?

Looks like they might be right about "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and "Trump Anxiety Disorder", maybe next year it'll make the CPT.

 

[Jaguar]

Hmm...27 full pages of Donald Trump?

Looks like they might be right about "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and "Trump Anxiety Disorder", maybe next year it'll make the CPT.

Using your so-called logic, people may have Disney Derangement Syndrome. 27 pages:
Lolz Disney Movies and MBTI Type

 

[Tomb1]

Foreign Leaders Look At Donald Trump And See ‘Preening, Clueless Clown’...

"...easily manipulated by flattery."

"Trump’s response, according to Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson — who won the Pulitzer Prize for commentary in 2009 — shows only that bin Salman, and other foreign rulers, know that they can have their way with Trump by appealing to his vanity."

“It shows them that if you just shower Trump with over-the-top flattery..., he will literally let you get away with murder.”

“The Saudi royals got on Trump’s good side by hosting his first foreign visit and fawning over him as if he, too, were an absolute monarch. North Korea’s Kim Jong Un was gracious and deferential to Trump at their summit — and now continues his nuclear and ballistic missile programs unmolested. Russia’s Vladimir Putin complimented Trump’s political skill — and escaped any meaningful punishment for meddling in the 2016 election,” Robinson recounted.

 

[neko 4]

Now that I've read up, I've decided: definitely ESTP.

 

[tommyc]

ESTP.

Well he's for sure an extrovert. Talks way way way way way before he thinks. And his extrovert process is Sensor - doesnt express himself in a logical, thoughtful way at all. Very dynamic, present, attuned to his environment. His internal process - who the hell knows, honestly. Im not even sure he has one, everything just seems to spew out without much filtering. I'm going with thinking rather than feeling - but whatever it is his dominant, extrovert Sensor process almost makes it irrelevant. Im going ESTP. And he's GOTTA develop that introvert thinking process.

 

[redrocker]

Textbook ESTP.

 

[raskol]

Im going ESTP. And he's GOTTA develop that introvert thinking process.

His media persona is basically ESTP, the "smooth operator" of the 1980s, but that's not his personality. Trump has never displayed the smoothness of Se dom, but rather tense and rigid movements. And I can't detect any Ti whatsoever. He powers through by sheer willpower and intuition, entirely uninterested in actual details and specifics. If he is forced into an argument, he will repeat two or three lines until he has exhausted his interlocutor--or is frustrated and ends the conversation prematurely.

What we get with Trump is Te dom and Ni aux, i.e., ENTJ.

 

[tommyc]

Thanks for the response. A coupla things Id say.

Firstly, a person's "persona" is covered by MBTI theory - it's their extraverted process. What shows on the outside. For Trump, I think this is Sensing. You say he doesnt show 'smoothness' - I guess you mean physical smoothness? Perhaps, but I mean hes a big bulky guy and seems coordinated not clumsy to me. He seems very attuned to his environment, the physical world, how other people look and sound. He is very materialistic - he enjoys the physical pleasures of life, he revels in wealth and what that buys him. He is flashy, very concerned with how he looks. He values first impressions, which are based on primary sense data. He lives in the moment, is pragmatic, deals with actualities not possibilities. For these reasons I type him a Sensor.

You say he leads with Te? If he did he would choose his words a hell of a lot more carefully, and would express himself in a much more considered and logical way. As you state, his usual mode of argument is just repeating the same simplistic thing over and over, louder and louder, until the other person just gets tired.

As regards his instincts - ESTP uses introverted intuition. But really I think his instincts are the combination of a very alert dominant sensing process combined with a surprisingly shrewd and calculating introvert thinking process.

 

[raskol]

Firstly, a person's "persona" is covered by MBTI theory - it's their extraverted process. What shows on the outside.

Ah, but then you overlooked an essential part of my statement. ESTP is Trump's media persona, crafted by corporate personnel who promoted a well-executed package of WASP machismo and go-getter charm.

For Trump, I think this is Sensing. You say he doesnt show 'smoothness' - I guess you mean physical smoothness? Perhaps, but I mean hes a big bulky guy and seems coordinated not clumsy to me.

I'd say he's clumsy and borderline awkward. You must have missed his coin toss at the Army-Navy game in Philly, or when he got TP stuck on the back of his heel.

He seems very attuned to his environment, the physical world, how other people look and sound.

I'd say less attuned; tert Se.

He is very materialistic - he enjoys the physical pleasures of life, he revels in wealth and what that buys him. He is flashy, very concerned with how he looks. He values first impressions, which are based on primary sense data.

All of that fits both ESxP and ENTJ perfectly.

He lives in the moment, is pragmatic, deals with actualities not possibilities. For these reasons I type him a Sensor.

Whereas we don't have access to his thought process, his business decisions and associates point toward long-range and big-picture thinking. Furthermore, ESTP would necessitate Ti aux, which simply isn't a part of his behavioral repertoire.

You say he leads with Te? If he did he would choose his words a hell of a lot more carefully, and would express himself in a much more considered and logical way. As you state, his usual mode of argument is just repeating the same simplistic thing over and over, louder and louder, until the other person just gets tired.

Te is reason, not logic. As such, Te relates to the most effective way of getting your point across, capturing the language of power rather than that of academia. It is therefore ultimately irrelevant whether the message is logically coherent or well-worded.

As regards his instincts - ESTP uses introverted intuition. But really I think his instincts are the combination of a very alert dominant sensing process combined with a surprisingly shrewd and calculating introvert thinking process.

Both ENTJ and ESTP belong to the NiSe/SeNi axis. What separates the two, functionally speaking, is TeFi versus TiFe.

 

[tommyc]

You make some good points! On the materialist point - I have to disagree. Materialism is the most obvious sign of a sensor - revelling in immediate pleasures is what being a Sensor is alllllll about. ENTJ is less concerned with wealth for its own sake, only in how it gives him power. He wont spend as frivolously or enjoy his wealth as much.

In regards to long-range and big-picture thinking.... the jury's out. He seems to make it up as he goes along. Hes gone bankrupt a few times, a number of businesses folded. He won the election, but I think that was less long-term planning and more intelligent opportunism, striking when public sentiment was on his side. Then he rode that wave of sentiment to the White House.

As regards to this:

Both ENTJ and ESTP belong to the NiSe/SeNi axis. What separates the two, functionally speaking, is TeFi versus TiFe.

I think there is a danger in MBTI typing to get too caught up in the third and fourth functions. Its really hard to see that deeply into someone. It is possible however to guage the dominant external process, and take an educated guess as to their dominant internal process.

 

[raskol]

You make some good points!

Thanks. Likewise.

On the materialist point - I have to disagree. Materialism is the most obvious sign of a sensor - revelling in immediate pleasures is what being a Sensor is alllllll about.

Don't exclude ENTJs. Read up on them. A temporarily suppressed Ni will make ENTJs very similar to ESFPs caught in the same function loop.

ENTJ is less concerned with wealth for its own sake, only in how it gives him power. He wont spend as frivolously or enjoy his wealth as much.

ENTJs aren't frugal. Alongside ESxP they're among the most impulsive high-end consumers you'll find. And it strikes me as strange that you don't see how Trump is drawn to power rather than riches, seeing a kindred spirit in the likes of Kim and Putin rather than Bezos and Cuban.

In regards to long-range and big-picture thinking.... the jury's out. He seems to make it up as he goes along. Hes gone bankrupt a few times, a number of businesses folded. He won the election, but I think that was less long-term planning and more intelligent opportunism, striking when public sentiment was on his side. Then he rode that wave of sentiment to the White House.

He was always drawn to politics, foreign and domestic. And it was the third time he approached the presidency, having failed terribly in 2000 and ultimately deciding against running in 2012. Furthermore, he doesn't need to plan anything by himself. Since a young age, he has been in a role where he could delegate tasks and set timelines, all the while focusing on optics and business relations.

I think there is a danger in MBTI typing to get too caught up in the third and fourth functions. Its really hard to see that deeply into someone. It is possible however to guage the dominant external process, and take an educated guess as to their dominant internal process.

I reject any measurement involving depth, as this is a question of observability pertaining to function axes.

We have two judging functions (F and T) and two perceiving functions (P and J), and if one is extraverted then the other must be introverted. That gives us four main sets. In Trump's case, we both agree on Ni and Se, while I favor Te/Fi ahead of Ti/Fe for obvious reasons. This gives me four alternatives (NTJ/SFP), but I remove the introverts, leaving only ENTJ and ESFP. As I then see a preference for Te over Se, as well as Ni over Fi, I end up with ENTJ. This also falls in line with Trump's interactive style, which is direct, initiating, and controlling.

 

[ducks]

The problem I have with an ENTJ typing for Trump is that he cares way too much about his own kind of twisted logic about things. Like the wall and seeing illegal immigrants as some kind of enemy is weird, given the abundance of data that contradicts the idea that we need a wall or that illegal immigrants are really even a problem for the country. I think in his mind the wall and immigrants is a logical necessity to focusing on "America First" or something.

And I just think such thinking is rather antithetical to Te and not anything to do with Ni. But could go more in line with a more subjective logic, such as Ti.

 

[tommyc]

Don't exclude ENTJs. Read up on them.

I am well versed in ENTJs. My Dad was one! And he was not a materialistic man.

leaving only ENTJ and ESFP

The key here is to decipher whether he's a Sensor, or an Intuitive. We agree he's an Extrovert. We agree he leans more towards thought, not feeling. It should be quite obvious that he's a Sensor, not an Intuitive. I know theres third and fourth functions but what is he leading with?

Intuitives see patterns and meanings, are drawn to books and art, very comfortable in the world of ideas. Trump is one of the least well-read, most culturally backward presidents ever. He wants to be in THE HERE AND NOW. He gets bored easily, likes excitement, is a doer and prefers acting to thinking. All much more indicative of a Sensor than an Intuitive.

As you said before, in quite a poetic way, he captures the 'language of power not academia'. Academia is the land of the Intuitive. How many Sensors/Intuitives are on this website, for instance, chewing over the human psyche and enjoying intellectual debate? Look at the two previous presidents before him, as contrast. Obama - Intuitive. Gifted communicator, both spoken and written. Writes his own books. George W Bush - Sensor. Not the most gifted communicator. Whole Youtube compliation videos of him mangling words and generally expressing academic stupidity. Why was Bush mocked by the media? Because Intuitive intelligence is more socially esteemed than Sensing intelligence, and the liberal media is filled with intuitives.

Trump was also met with a negative response from the largely intuitive liberal media. Who are his voter base, mainly? Male blue collar workers. Sensors. And not only that, Thinking Sensors, just like Trump. Intuitives are attracted to intuitives, sensors to sensors, as a rule. Other sensors appreciate his no-nonsense, fast acting approach, and they like that he doesnt show much Intuitive intelligence. They see that as pretentious, and they dont trust it.