[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Why no type is an insult.

[Red Memories]

Since I have been on this forum, a very common typing for me is an ExFJ. Fe-dominant. Some people have good logic for this, but I also have heard some piss-poor logic on this. I have also heard ESFJ as a typing used as an insult. Whether or not I am ESFJ or whatever is not the point. For a moment I'm going to be ESFJ. I'm going to put my foot down and be an 8. But I should forewarn you, I am neither of those things. But I might be. If I am Fe so be it. If I am Fi so be it. But I want to make something clear.

No typing should be an insult, and Fe or ESFJ should not be used as an insult. Most of these insult typings for any type come from a stereotypical idea or a misunderstanding of someone's typology. And I think just about every type as them, but I reference Fe types because I have noticed more than anything that Fe is very commonly misunderstood and insulted. Every type is judged for that one bad type you see.

First, I want to make note, every single function has a purpose and can be useful. We need types of all kinds. Secondly, I must say I use typology as a self-analysis tool moreso than an "analyze another person" tool. I think it is very beneficial to understand yourself, your flaws, and grow from it.

Not every Ti is a know it all smarty pants E5.
Not every Te is an overly ambitious drill sergeant graph loving E3
Not every Fe is a people loving moral crusader E2W3
Not every Fi is a chill laid back unspoken E4
Not every Ni is a super introverted deep thinking all the time mad scientist
Not every Ne is an ADHD people loving spontaneous E7
Not every Si is a rigid cutthroat E3 with too many rules.
Not every Se is a sex obsessed substance abusing reckless E8

I technically type as an ENFP 1W2 core 5w6 (or 6w5, I haven't totally decided on that.) and 4w3. Sx/So. And no one knows you better than yourself. I am still studying how things work themselves out. But I have never doubted two things about my typing.
1. I am an E1. I have not doubted it. I debated 8 for a while but in all honesty it was me mistaking my Sx 4.
2. I am Fi

E1 is actually a bit of a moral crusader on its own. So ANY TYPE mixed with E1 will seem more like they are pushing something. On themselves or others. It can look quasi-Fe. So Fi's can also display quasi-Fe. This is also an internet forum, where a strongly opinionated Fi can speak without worrying about being attacked offline. So truthfully an Fi here may look different even. I am honestly more out-spoken here at times than I am offline, and it is mainly because there is a lot more differences of morality here and it leads to debates. Often I sound so rigid someone gets reactive, then I get reactive, and WHOOPEE REACTIVITY FEST.

I am not here to tell you that your typing of me is wrong. I am here to tell you that your typing of me needs more basis than my religious belief or dislike of styles of jokes which could hurt more people than just me. I see a bigger picture, maybe you don't.
I am not here to tell you that your typing of someone else is wrong. I am here to tell you that typing needs more basis than your dislike of the way they speak or suggest something you do isn't as authentic or fair. Or even efficient, if you're a Te.

I am here to tell you that whatever type it is, and whatever biases you have, to put them aside. If you don't like someone, don't type them maybe. I say this because perhaps you attach your stereotypes (even I have done this, for a while anyone I didn't like was an E8 but it actually has nothing to do with type) to people you dislike. You met 1 bad ESFJ and all ESFJs are evil. You met 1 bad ENTP and all ENTPs can suck your ass and all. That's not how typology works.

Also, typology is putting a small box of many different personalities. You have to align with this this and this and it gives you this. Except not everyone fits in that box. To me, MBTI is incomplete without an enneagram type. I feel like Enneagram fills in the holes MBTI has personality wise, by accounting for the differences in personality. An E1 ENFP can be more rigid and perfectionistic about its work with stronger Si although it is inferior, for instance. Or a Ti E4 would want their truths to be authentic to them and not want to sway much, possibly giving the Ti, an Fi feel. Socionics is a stronger system but more difficult to understand.

So the purpose of this? I honestly compel you to get your judgments of any function or type out of your system here, and then write to yourself how you're going to do better.

I will start for you.

I have judged Enneagram 8 because when I first joined, I struggled with people who typed as E8. I viewed them as overly-domineering cruel E-types who I couldn't get along with. We were destined to fist-fight. But any unhealthy type can come off negatively, so it is unfair of me to judge solely E8 as a bad type.
I will work harder to understand what it means to be an E8 and realize not every assertive return to my comments is meant to personally attack me.

 

[Merced]

I can't think of any examples where the insult itself was the typing. When I first was in the site, the insult in saying I'm an ESFJ was moreso "You understand so little that you're mistyped and you don't even notice". You can tell if this is the case when they can't provide any evidence or reasoning. More often than not, however, most people here don't do that. The few times that really even occurs is when there are people who are known to be sensitive about their typing, which from my knowledge here have all been people who ID as NFs.

 

[notmyapples]

I have judged XSTP and XSFJ due to a bad history with individuals who share those typings. Multiple people in the past who have hurt me and I have seen hurt the people I care about are xSTP and XSFJ. I think that now, having learned much more about typology and also letting my resentment towards those people go, I have began to look at these types far more fairly. But even then, I can never help the instinctual leer back when I learn someone I like might be ESTP, or my friend may be ISFJ. Not because I look down on these types or functions, but because they remind me of those horrendous people and the scars I still have because of them. I will work harder to separate type from toxic individuals and look at them as just that, not representations of what their types will do in the future.

 

[Red Memories]

I have judged XSTP and XSFJ due to a bad history with individuals who share those typings. Multiple people in the past who have hurt me and I have seen hurt the people I care about are xSTP and XSFJ. I think that now, having learned much more about typology and also letting my resentment towards those people go, I have began to look at these types far more fairly. But even then, I can never help the instinctual leer back when I learn someone I like might be ESTP, or my friend may be ISFJ. Not because I look down on these types or functions, but because they remind me of those horrendous people and the scars I still have because of them. I will work harder to separate type from toxic individuals and look at them as just that, not representations of what their types will do in the future.

I appreciate you being so honest with this. It is so easy to correlate a type or label with someone of a negative experience. I've had similar issues with some of my negative experiences of a person, like say, this one person who deeply scarred me's favorite band was Linkin Park. and I felt weird when I found out someone I like really loves Linkin Park. It technically seems totally unrelated, yet in our minds it is related.
I pray you have better intereactions in the future. It is hard getting hurt. *huggle*

 

[Red Memories]

I can't think of any examples where the insult itself was the typing. When I first was in the site, the insult in saying I'm an ESFJ was moreso "You understand so little that you're mistyped and you don't even notice". You can tell if this is the case when they can't provide any evidence or reasoning. More often than not, however, most people here don't do that. The few times that really even occurs is when there are people who are known to be sensitive about their typing, which from my knowledge here have all been people who ID as NFs.

I think any type is truly capable of doing it, NFs, SPs, TJs, etc. The person may not even conciously realize they are backhandedly doing it. Which is why I sort of asked at the end for an analysis and a type out of where you find yourself showing it toward another type, even if you've never verbalized it.

 

[Tilt]

Since I have been on this forum, a very common typing for me is an ExFJ. Fe-dominant. Some people have good logic for this, but I also have heard some piss-poor logic on this. I have also heard ESFJ as a typing used as an insult. Whether or not I am ESFJ or whatever is not the point. For a moment I'm going to be ESFJ. I'm going to put my foot down and be an 8. But I should forewarn you, I am neither of those things. But I might be. If I am Fe so be it. If I am Fi so be it. But I want to make something clear.

No typing should be an insult, and Fe or ESFJ should not be used as an insult. Most of these insult typings for any type come from a stereotypical idea or a misunderstanding of someone's typology. And I think just about every type as them, but I reference Fe types because I have noticed more than anything that Fe is very commonly misunderstood and insulted. Every type is judged for that one bad type you see.

First, I want to make note, every single function has a purpose and can be useful. We need types of all kinds. Secondly, I must say I use typology as a self-analysis tool moreso than an "analyze another person" tool. I think it is very beneficial to understand yourself, your flaws, and grow from it.

Not every Ti is a know it all smarty pants E5.
Not every Te is an overly ambitious drill sergeant graph loving E3
Not every Fe is a people loving moral crusader E2W3
Not every Fi is a chill laid back unspoken E4
Not every Ni is a super introverted deep thinking all the time mad scientist
Not every Ne is an ADHD people loving spontaneous E7
Not every Si is a rigid cutthroat E3 with too many rules.
Not every Se is a sex obsessed substance abusing reckless E8

I technically type as an ENFP 1W2 core 5w6 (or 6w5, I haven't totally decided on that.) and 4w3. Sx/So. And no one knows you better than yourself. I am still studying how things work themselves out. But I have never doubted two things about my typing.
1. I am an E1. I have not doubted it. I debated 8 for a while but in all honesty it was me mistaking my Sx 4.
2. I am Fi

E1 is actually a bit of a moral crusader on its own. So ANY TYPE mixed with E1 will seem more like they are pushing something. On themselves or others. It can look quasi-Fe. So Fi's can also display quasi-Fe. This is also an internet forum, where a strongly opinionated Fi can speak without worrying about being attacked offline. So truthfully an Fi here may look different even. I am honestly more out-spoken here at times than I am offline, and it is mainly because there is a lot more differences of morality here and it leads to debates. Often I sound so rigid someone gets reactive, then I get reactive, and WHOOPEE REACTIVITY FEST.

I am not here to tell you that your typing of me is wrong. I am here to tell you that your typing of me needs more basis than my religious belief or dislike of styles of jokes which could hurt more people than just me. I see a bigger picture, maybe you don't.
I am not here to tell you that your typing of someone else is wrong. I am here to tell you that typing needs more basis than your dislike of the way they speak or suggest something you do isn't as authentic or fair. Or even efficient, if you're a Te.

I am here to tell you that whatever type it is, and whatever biases you have, to put them aside. If you don't like someone, don't type them maybe. I say this because perhaps you attach your stereotypes (even I have done this, for a while anyone I didn't like was an E8 but it actually has nothing to do with type) to people you dislike. You met 1 bad ESFJ and all ESFJs are evil. You met 1 bad ENTP and all ENTPs can suck your ass and all. That's not how typology works.

Also, typology is putting a small box of many different personalities. You have to align with this this and this and it gives you this. Except not everyone fits in that box. To me, MBTI is incomplete without an enneagram type. I feel like Enneagram fills in the holes MBTI has personality wise, by accounting for the differences in personality. An E1 ENFP can be more rigid and perfectionistic about its work with stronger Si although it is inferior, for instance. Or a Ti E4 would want their truths to be authentic to them and not want to sway much, possibly giving the Ti, an Fi feel. Socionics is a stronger system but more difficult to understand.

So the purpose of this? I honestly compel you to get your judgments of any function or type out of your system here, and then write to yourself how you're going to do better.

I will start for you.

I have judged Enneagram 8 because when I first joined, I struggled with people who typed as E8. I viewed them as overly-domineering cruel E-types who I couldn't get along with. We were destined to fist-fight. But any unhealthy type can come off negatively, so it is unfair of me to judge solely E8 as a bad type.
I will work harder to understand what it means to be an E8 and realize not every assertive return to my comments is meant to personally attack me.

It shouldn't be a big deal. You know you so others don't really matter at the end of the day.

Like with me, some people have a hard time seeing me as Fe-dominant, because I am not very social and somewhat reserved... I don't fit the EXFJ stereotype. I like hearing people's differing opinions, because it often directs me to my unknown blindspots and strengths.

 

[Norrsken]

I honestly do believe that the casual Fe dominant droppings from some people come from personal hangups and envy of that one person who seems put together and jovial and socially acceptable. I'd argue that any and all types can shine their own way and can have plenty of social success; your introversion is no excuse to be stuck up, discriminating, callous, or even shy. I'd argue the same for thinking types. You can work on your social skills and be successful.

If you're stupid and seemingly shallow and happy, then you got's to be an ESFJ and that's final. See what a tremendous insult it is to actual ESFJs when they see that?

Great post as usual, Crystal.

 

[Lord Lavender]

I have heard a lot of the points above from many others scattered across the forum regarding many typology systems. Overall though a lot of people here do use stereotypes and surface tratis to type one and thats okay for a preliminary typing at the start but as you get to know a person better your framework should change to accommodate that and one should be prepared to give more than "just a vibe" when doing a serious typing especially if unsolicited. Yes I would imagine a small minorty of people use certain typing's as insults to people they dislike such as typing whiny people as E4s or F types but I think most people dont mean to use them to insult but rather out of bad stereotypes and not understanding the system.

At the end of the day we shouldn't assume everyone who types us as a type we dont want to be is trying to insult you but rather some are just being objective from their PoV and understanding of typology and a word of advice at the end of the day you are the one to decide what type you fit most and others can only help and suggest on that path to finding your type.

 

[Red Memories]

It shouldn't be a big deal. You know you so others don't really matter at the end of the day.

Like with me, some people have a hard time seeing me as Fe-dominant, because I am not very social and somewhat reserved... I don't fit the EXFJ stereotype. I like hearing people's differing opinions, because it often directs me to my unknown blindspots and strengths.

But that gets into the misunderstanding, as said, not all Fe doms are social butterflies and E2s. And how Enneagram can fill in some of these gaps of explanations.

 

[Red Memories]

I honestly do believe that the casual Fe dominant droppings from some people come from personal hangups and envy of that one person who seems put together and jovial and socially acceptable. I'd argue that any and all types can shine their own way and can have plenty of social success; your introversion is no excuse to be stuck up, discriminating, callous, or even shy. I'd argue the same for thinking types. You can work on your social skills and be successful.

If you're stupid and seemingly shallow and happy, then you got's to be an ESFJ and that's final. See what a tremendous insult it is to actual ESFJs when they see that?

Great post as usual, Crystal.

Thank you Norsken.

And that is very true. MBTI can be a great analysis tool to work on our flaws. Like as a strong feeler, I can see where I tend to let my logic fall flat and my emotions overtake without something to back it up. It's pushed me to find real things to back up what I say and believe, rather than just going "this is it because it is what I believe."

 

[Red Memories]

I have heard a lot of the points above from many others scattered across the forum regarding many typology systems. Overall though a lot of people here do use stereotypes and surface tratis to type one and thats okay for a preliminary typing at the start but as you get to know a person better your framework should change to accommodate that and one should be prepared to give more than "just a vibe" when doing a serious typing especially if unsolicited. Yes I would imagine a small minorty of people use certain typing's as insults to people they dislike such as typing whiny people as E4s or F types but I think most people dont mean to use them to insult but rather out of bad stereotypes and not understanding the system.

At the end of the day we shouldn't assume everyone who types us as a type we dont want to be is trying to insult you but rather some are just being objective from their PoV and understanding of typology and a word of advice at the end of the day you are the one to decide what type you fit most and others can only help and suggest on that path to finding your type.

Certainly. I love hearing real logic behind a different choice. The other day someone suggested ENFJ for me and had a few fair logical views to back up why she suggested it. And it doesn't mean we have to change our types either, but certainly, there is something more needed than a vibe or 3 actions to define someone's viewpoint. I am open to hearing suggestions, so as long as you have a reasonable explanation why you made such an assumption. Some people who have said ESFJ here have good reasoning for thinking I am an ESFJ. Some people say me have called you an E2 but I also have reasoning why I think you are an E2.

 

[great_bay]

I have to agree with OP. In real life, I know an INTJ who ruined his life by playing video-games all day and never had a job. He's 35 years old right now. The other INTP I know reads all day in the library and he is middle-aged and never had a job. Meanwhile, I know an ESFP with a PHD in psychology and an ESFJ with masters in liberal arts. Not every single INTJ and INTP is a super competent scientist.

 

[Tilt]

But that gets into the misunderstanding, as said, not all Fe doms are social butterflies and E2s. And how Enneagram can fill in some of these gaps of explanations.

Yes. That message gets reiterated every once in awhile. It's nothing new. When people take MBTI typing too seriously/personally, they often on hiatus and then become nonchalant.

 

[Merced]

I think any type is truly capable of doing it, NFs, SPs, TJs, etc. The person may not even conciously realize they are backhandedly doing it. Which is why I sort of asked at the end for an analysis and a type out of where you find yourself showing it toward another type, even if you've never verbalized it.

What?

I'm saying that I don't see people saying "You're an Fe dom" as an insult because being an Fe dom is bad. The insult comes with the fact that you disagree and they know it'll tick you off. The people I've seen so far who fall for it ID as NFs.

 

[Red Memories]

What?

I'm saying that I don't see people saying "You're an Fe dom" as an insult because being an Fe dom is bad. The insult comes with the fact that you disagree and they know it'll tick you off. The people I've seen so far who fall for it ID as NFs.

I know what you're saying.
I am saying any type is capable of doing what I wrote about, which is basically, negatively applying a judgment to a person because of a type or typing someone as that type they don't like because they dislike the person. I do not think every suggestion as being an Fe dom is an insult similar to most may not find it insulting to be considered Te-dom, Ni-dom, etc.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

As long as people are divided into groups, people will want their group to be superior, and will insult the others. This is way mbti should never be used in a professional, collective way even though it already has...

 

[LucieCat]

People over generalize. I wouldn't pay too much attention to it. If someone complains about a type, it's probably because they are thinking of one or so people of that type they've not gotten along with.
Plus stereotypes are a thing. They can be positive such as smart or negative. No stereotypes are good.
For most people it takes a lot of time and practice to get just a vague idea of type. So it kind of even is strange to say my earlier point of a bad experience with that type. It's more of a bad experience with how the type or function is perceived to be. You could be right on the type, but often not.
A vague feeling of type before you've known and spent considerable time with someone is also not reliable. I'm thinking of an example of a friend of mine who is very likely an ENFJ. If you had asked me to type her after I first met her, I would have probably said INTJ because she initially gave off similar vibes to an INTJ friend of mine. Granted, she hasn't had her coffee yet that morning so maybe that's part of the reason she seemed rather withdrawn and a bit.. I can't describe it... the INTJs I've come to know and have a good sense of their type can come across as a bit... I can't explain it. The word to come to mind is "grumpy," but I don't think that suffices it. Grumpy is a negative quality, and I don't think what I've noticed is a negative trait at all.
I've also noticed that it's easier to identify the extroverted functions a person is using.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

So many stereotypes. So many mistypings. So many people thinking they know best, typing strangers on the Internet.
We've all done it, myself included.

I'm glad you posted this. Sometimes it's cathartic to rant a bit and stake a claim to your own identity. I think you are doing the healthy thing to follow your own intuition. It's natural to want to ask others about things you presume you know less about, but sometimes it's better to just do the research yourself and pair with deep reflection.

 

[Forever]

This is an inevitable problem from within the roots of an MBTI community.

16 types, which any user types him or herself as will fall in 16 groups (I don't think people readily go so far as MBTI + E).

However, it is important to note, if you take an mbti type to be offensive, sometimes it's not always the accuser, but yourself. Why do you take that mbti type as an offense? Do you see them within a lower class?

It's rarely mentioned in the same sentence:
XXXX suck, oh yeah and you are one.

But someone saying you're an ESFJ because [stereotype, like you care about what others think too much, or your behavior is too superficiall] should automatically be considered "bad" even though the reasoning is poor, it's like calling me an Ni Dom because I'm so ultra paranoid. But somehow no one takes offense to that. There's a problem right there.


MBTI communities have their dangers, just know what you're getting into.. if someone pisses you off, you can always step out. No one can force you to stay.

 

[Red Memories]

Thanks for the inputs everyone as well. I sort of got the rant out of my system nonetheless it left you with food for thought. XD