[Traditional Enneagram] For gut people: Do you see yourself as angry ?

[ChocolateMoose123]

It's the second time I get this back-out smilie in just a couple of days hehe

I have two best friends that are ENFJ. So, I love a lot of aspects about them. It could be personality differences but when I need to discuss something, like "hey, what you did/this plan of action you took wasn't right"

It's met with a "if you're not with me you're against me" vibe. Which, is far from the truth but ugh. Not everyone is right no matter type. But getting through to an ENFJ is near impossible, no matter how delicate I make the delivery.

 

[ThaumaturgicTheorist]

Yeah, I have a lot of anger, some of it not too healthy. It only started coming out in the last few years though, and I never seem to know what to do with it. I'm guessing I don't seem all that angry or frustrated in person though.

 

[Pionart]

just be angry at the anger or the other ones and its all good fuck you !

thumsa oup lol

 

[geedoenfj]

I have two best friends that are ENFJ. So, I love a lot of aspects about them. It could be personality differences but when I need to discuss something, like "hey, what you did/this plan of action you took wasn't right"

It's met with a "if you're not with me you're against me" vibe. Which, is far from the truth but ugh. Not everyone is right no matter type. But getting through to an ENFJ is near impossible, no matter how delicate I make the delivery.

I get along pretty well with STPs, my best friend is an ESTP, it could be the personality differences as you said..
Well although I don't like people getting into my business, like you gotta do this you gotta do that, I can listen to them because they might have some interesting ideas, I can take an advice, only sometimes I feel annoyed because they have no idea what my circumstances are, specially when they give an advice but make accusations against me at the same time that I know is not true, for example one time I was talking to my INFP sister about a problem with my husband, she was like:" I know you don't like advices but yes he's like that because you're this and that and you should treat him like that" she based her accusations upon how I might appear (strong, controlling, gut person) thinking that I have started it somehow, but that absolutely have nothing to do with the problem, and it's not true at all, being strong doesn't imply being mean or rude.. instead of making me feel better, she put me in a defensive situation which is why I was frustrated, but tried to not show my frustration because I know she was trying to help, I only replied to her points telling her how she has the wrong idea about how I deal with my husband, (she thinks I don't take an advice because she saw me almost bursted against a lady when she repeatedly annoyingly kept getting between me and my son with a commanding tone which was getting on my nerves again and again ugh!)
I don't know if your approach towards your ENFJ friends have anything to do with this reaction, however I suggest that you give them a suggestion right after you make such a statement, or just start with suggestions right away like "I think doing this is a better option because bluh bluh bluh.." because only making a statement "you did that wrong" put them in a defensive situation, and being defensive make us lose our charisma
My ESTP friend usually goes like "WHY DID YOU DO THAT?! IT WAS WRONG!!!" I just put a big smile on my face then either tell her: "hey shut up ESTP! Mind your own business!" or think for a while then tell her "You think so ?" Or "ok, what do you suggest ?"

 

[kyuuei]

I am an angry person. I don't see myself as one.. it's just what I am. Most of the time, I have good channels of venting... sometimes I don't.

 

[Yara the Corpse]

Eh... it's gotten better. Or worse. Ok it's always been there, nowadays it's just not as readily available, more hidden and almost imperceptible.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Getting a point across or getting someone's attention. Or when someone in a parking lot ignores my pedestrian right of way. HEY! I'M WALKING HERE! I'm not angry, I'm just getting their attention. I also hear - please, don't yell at them - just like your mom does (my mom too).

I was just checking. I totally agree with this, people totally mistake directness/desire for anger. I can understand that under some definitions this can pass as anger but that sounds kinda wrong to me.

Also I very very rarely call people names and similar to that, however I am pretty straight forward most of the time. So Fs see me as rude quite often.



Anyway, I have started this therad with desire to check out if people think it is possible to be gut type without being a obvious rage machine ? I am new in the club but I seem to belong here and the fact that I grew up completely surrounded with head types left it's mark. What is perhaps one of the main reasons why I felt out of touch with myself.

 

[VeniVidiVertigo]

I am not to familiar with the enneagram system. But i am the 385 tri-type. I see myself alot in what you are saying, though. My anger is definately my blind spot: the tone of my voice and my body language. I think i can act unnescecarily dominant without noticing it before i see it in others around me (they might be stressing around, making mistakes, not knowing what to do with themselves. Even my boss). Then i feel bad. like frankensteins monster just wanting to be friends. This is a pattern it's really hard to get out of. I am trying hard to not change the mood of a social setting when i enter it. And this is waste of mental resources. If i were younger or to anyone like me, i might recomend a millitary job. As you can effectively make use of that overflow of strong emotions.

 

[VeniVidiVertigo]

A good way to get a hold of yourself is when someone points out your anger of makes fun of it. i like that. Or if someone is generally just on the same level as you. But since you surrounded yourself with "head-people" i see the problem

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am not to familiar with the enneagram system. But i am the 385 tri-type. I see myself alot in what you are saying, though. My anger is definately my blind spot: the tone of my voice and my body language. I think i can act unnescecarily dominant without noticing it before i see it in others around me (they might be stressing around, making mistakes, not knowing what to do with themselves. Even my boss). Then i feel bad. like frankensteins monster just wanting to be friends. This is a pattern it's really hard to get out of. I am trying hard to not change the mood of a social setting when i enter it. And this is waste of mental resources. If i were younger or to anyone like me, i might recomend a millitary job. As you can effectively make use of that overflow of strong emotions.

Oh nice, another Solution master. (Solution master is combination of 3,5 and 8)

To be honest I have long time ago noticed that often people are alot more firiendly, chaty and random if I am not around (or at least if they think I am not around). Especially since they seem nervous about the idea that I will ask them hard questions. Also there can be inversions of power, like me making the schedule for my professors (since their original plan crashed). However all of this can be very lonely way of existing since people as you say "think you are frankenstein's monster". You may even have skin thick enough not to truly care but that is not really the answer.

A good way to get a hold of yourself is when someone points out your anger of makes fun of it. i like that. Or if someone is generally just on the same level as you. But since you surrounded yourself with "head-people" i see the problem

Well I didn't exactly surround myself with them as much as I just got them. I grew up in the house where everbody is head type so I was rised to be one ... and education sistem was very pro head type as well. What is the remain of our totalitarian past and the idea that people shouldn't venture too far on their own, so they shouldn't learn nothing more than "mind games". Therefore I just did decent in school at first and I used the computer to play video games in order to make that sense of concrete progress that I really really need to feel complete.

 

[EJCC]

Prior to discovering the Enneagram, I saw myself as having a hair-trigger temper. Not being an angry person, but being quick to anger. The polite terms for that, used by family members to describe me, were "passionate", "strong personality", and "firecracker".

Nowadays I wouldn't be described that way, as much. At least not by people who got to know me relatively recently. But I'm still that person. Just more restrained, and more open-minded (relatively speaking).

 

[EJCC]

Also, I lol'd at "gut people"

 

[ThaumaturgicTheorist]

just be angry at the anger or the other ones and its all good fuck you !

thumsa oup lol

I've heard it said that head types are afraid of their fear, heart types ashamed of their shame, but there doesn't seem much indication that gut types are mad at their rage....

 

[EJCC]

I've heard it said that head types are afraid of their fear, heart types ashamed of their shame, but there doesn't seem much indication that gut types are mad at their rage....

Nines and Ones can be. Not sure about Eights.

 

[ceecee]

I've heard it said that head types are afraid of their fear, heart types ashamed of their shame, but there doesn't seem much indication that gut types are mad at their rage....

I can be mad that I *have* rage. That it can control me if I were to let it. I don't get mad at the rage itself.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Contrary to popular notions, opinions and beliefs have their basis in the instincts, in the gut. When we assert a position ("This is absolutely the way it is!") the certainty of our view comes from our gut.

Thoughts ?

 

[OrangeAppled]

Supposedly 9s go numb to the anger. That is why they can start being passive-agressive at lower levels, which can include stuff like being patronizingly "nice" and then asking someone else why they are mad.
I also see them turn the anger on themselves - it can give them low self-esteem, which then prevents them from being more assertive, which breeds more repressed anger. Like most repressed emotions, it can eat away at their bodies. Or they "narcotize" the disturbing emotions, as some descriptions put it. The psychological lazy aspect is not wanting to fully deal with disturbing aspects of themselves and life, so they take shortcuts to "peace" and "calm", but stuff is not really being resolved (so the anger will still exist beneath the surface).

Healthier 9s will do the uncomfortable work needed to really solve stuff, and that means they often have to really feel the anger and what it signals. But I think because they developed habits of not lashing out angrily, they can be exceptionally gracious in how they resolve things. Actually, most healthy types can be exceptionally gracious about whatever distorted emotion that once ran them, probably because they had to come to understand it so thoroughly to deal constructively with it.

The character in Punch Drunk Love is like an exaggeration of an unhealthy 9, IMO.

I think it's Naranjo who describes 4s as being some of the most visibly angry characters. I can attest to being painted as hostile when younger. It comes from resentment at not having "received" what others have (ie love, attention, that personal significance) and feeling misunderstood. It's sometimes said that 4s are better off when they get angry rather than when stuck in sadness because then they at least take action, but I don't think it's true. Equilibrium is supposed to be the path for growth for 4s, which means NOT being driven by extremes of emotion or lashing out.

 

[Firebird 8118]

Hmm... I suppose these days I get irritable and lash out verbally a bit. But I don't scream or anything unless my anger has crossed all limits, which is usually quite rare.

Most of the time though, I'll end up holding it in with clenched fists until the feeling passes.

 

[Sil]

Not really. I find others are generally more prone to 'anger' (read=reactive behavior) than me.

I've been repeatedly accused of being aggressive in my speech. I tend to lock onto people the way a dog looks at prey when I'm really engaged. It's not meant to be aggressive, but I tend to get more direct and maybe more intense (?) in a way that quickly puts people on the defensive.

I'm not a yeller and never have been. I'm deaf to people who yell at me.

I wouldn't say I'm angry, or even angrier than others. I would say I can be more inclined to anger though if I'm feeling careless.

Normally, I take steps not to get angry. I don't thrive on it like I used to and find it often to be a waste of time.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

I am pretty angry. And when people are incompetent, that pisses me off even more.

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