[NF] how do enfjs manipulate people?

[chado]

ok ok i know enfjs dont usualy manipulate people ect but they have the most potential if they wanted to,ok my question if an enfj wanted to influence someone how would they go about it?
eg
i know alot of enfp and i generaly understand what they do when they want to influence someone and they can be very good at it
but i havent seen or dont realy understand the enfj and what they actualy do when they infleuncing someone lets say cognitive function wise
ll
eg since im an infp or sometimes i can be an enfp when i try to influence someone i usualy first judge there character(i know enfj's can be similer to enfps)so i have an impression of what they are actualy like then i go through things in the past eg situations weather about them or my life experince and id take certain ideas to influence a person eg i wanted to buy weed from this dude one day and his friends started to laugh at me so i got a bit worried then i realised something that theres guys were already use to a sertain type of person and i quickly ajusted myself to act like one of them and the laughter stoped and at school i use to act real goofy and sometimes some kids would try to pick on me and id quickly change the person i am and things im saying to complety distract them of a bullying mentality by evoking an already condisioned state in them ok i know this sounds weird and indetail but i thought alot about it we all do this ok
ok
ok
to the enfj
qeustion1)what do you guys usualy do if you realy had to influence someone to do something
question2)from a cognitive function point of view what is happening while you influencing someone
question3)from an introverted intuition perspective what kind of ideas do you use to infleunce people
question4)if you were in a dangerious situation involving gangsters or in a jail cell how would you infleunce them not to get harmed?
question5)in detail go throught everything you would do while you try to infleunce someone or a friend you know well?

 

[Tilt]

Size up what people value and play to that. Or plant seeds of doubt, whether intentional or unintentional.

 

[Poki]

Size up what people value and play to that. Or plant seeds of doubt, whether intentional or unintentional.

I like that intentional or unintentional. Because it really is an either or. Not one or the other. My ex talks trash abo me to others that really steers people and they then support her based on what she says. Then they meet me and are like WTF, none of it matches. But that is how she sees me, its not an intentional manipulation. On the other hand i have seen many ways in which she knowlingly manipulates the truth because it distorts perception in her favor. She is very strong and reactive this way and is frequently called out on being a hypocrit because her words that "manpulate" she does not stand up to wither and makes herself look even worse since not only does she fit, but she rubs people the wrong way which builds on it.

 

[Dreamer]

Ya, this stuff kinda scares me at times. I feel I do have the ability to sway people this way or that since I do have a good understanding of people just from talking with many types over time, and it almost feels like holding this sort of power or control. I don't ever intentionally manipulate people but since I do focus on my inner self most the time, Fi, my outward influence is thus centered around catering to that inner self so the scary part is not in having the ability to manipulate people as a tool I'd consciously wield, because I know I would never intentionally do it, but having the ability and subconsciously using it to affect people one way or the other, again, with the use of catering to that inner self. I couldn't care less what the external environment feels like so long as my inner self feels on point. Therefore, I guess you could say, it's only when I'm in a negative state or unhealthy, that I tend to manipulate people more readily. Well, I'd apply that to everyone really.

I'm only made aware of my manipulation after the fact when someone brings it up. I'm totally oblivious to it when I'm doing it.

I'm not an ENFJ but I felt like sharing my perspective nonetheless. I'm curious what comes of this thread

 

[Cellmold]

Hmmm I don't think I'm socially clever enough for that. But then I may be a pseudo-ENFJ.

Generally speaking though, I think any manipulation is the day to day sort of back and forth social games, rather than specifically strategized. In other words an active and ongoing modulation of behaviour (others and self) that constantly changes as new information and thus insights come into play.

It's often more demagogue-based than pedagogue-based, which I suspect is more a thinking element (Te +Si mainly) though this is not a rule by any means.

All those who feel manipulated raise your right hand.

 

[chado]

Size up what people value and play to that. Or plant seeds of doubt, whether intentional or unintentional.

i like this any more details?

 

[á´…eparted]

Here's how I do it anyway: I think about what end result I want, then think about how I can get it in such a way that no one will know that it is my goal is. It evolves in real time, and in experience almost everyone has no ided.

 

[Cellmold]

Here's how I do it anyway: I think about what end result I want, then think about how I can get it in such a way that no one will know that it is my goal is. It evolves in real time, and in experience almost everyone has no ided.

Interesting. Have you got an example?

 

[Starry]

eg since im an infp or sometimes i can be an enfp when i try to influence someone...

Are you suggesting that in order for you...an INFP to manipulate you must first morph into an ENFP?


I'll just tell you that some of the most manipulative people I've seen on this site have been INFPs...and male...but the male part is neither here nor there.

 

[á´…eparted]

Interesting. Have you got an example?

Say I want to do X. But asking to do X would not allow it. I determine that if I discuss Y, it will make it much easier to ask X organically, and likely to be permitted to do X. I then map out a series of discussion tracks (this is only partially conscious) that would allow Y to come up, and starting with Z which is completly unrelated will make Y seem natural. That process is organic and I go with the flow. The result? I get X.

That is just one method.

 

[chado]

Say I want to do X. But asking to do X would not allow it. I determine that if I discuss Y, it will make it much easier to ask X organically, and likely to be permitted to do X. I then map out a series of discussion tracks (this is only partially conscious) that would allow Y to come up, and starting with Z which is completly unrelated will make Y seem natural. That process is organic and I go with the flow. The result? I get X.

That is just one method.

nice finaly an enfj shares something!! thanks broo

 

[chado]

Are you suggesting that in order for you...an INFP to manipulate you must first morph into an ENFP?


I'll just tell you that some of the most manipulative people I've seen on this site have been INFPs...and male...but the male part is neither here nor there.

sorry i missed something im actualy an xnfp i litteraly get x on introverted and extroverted on test and i just feel like i can be both if i wanted to

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I learned I could manipulate almost anyone as a teenager. Girls were easy targets. Teachers and other adults, too. I even flipped an ultra-right winger classmate (John Bircher type) into a Communist for kicks and giggles.

Understanding others so easily makes it so I could see what they wanted and needed and how to get there, often long before they even were clued in consciously. I don't even need to think to do this and can jump in on the fly and convince most people.

But, around 18, I decided I couldn't just do that. My ENTP bro is a master manipulator and I didn't want to be like him. I felt responsible for the outcomes. I couldn't do the ESTP manipulation of others for profit. It is just so against my nature and values.....

"With great power comes great responsibility"........

 

[Masokissed]

ENFJs trading secrets like ESFJs trade recipes.

 

[Tilt]

i like this any more details?

What does the person value? Does he value money? Admiration? Security? Status? Success? Happiness? Acceptance? Play into the ego of whatever they value most. But oftentimes a person will value something a lot on the surface because of something else below the surface. So playing to the surface values will tend to only work temporarily and then they want something "more" out of life. That's why people will tend to project one thing when they ultimately want something else (but they don't know it yet).

What does he fear? Chaos? Loneliness? Embarrassment? Lack of respect? Invalidation?

How do you make the individual feel valued, important, special? Is there anything you can do to provide that?

 

[geedoenfj]

I think it's coming basically out of understanding people and their motivations and needs, I can easily choose the right approach and play on that, you need patience and not show all of your cards at once, always have a backup plan, I can also dilever messages only using body language and facial expressions.. but I am very careful to not use the manipulation to take advantage of others sometimes to the extent of being harsh on myself, but I learned to accept that it's just a natural charisma not necessarily a manipulation.. I think manipulating others is an abuse of power..
I usually use persuasion to communicate my ideas or for the group benefits, but it's really hard for me to communicate my own needs and benefits, I think I have a problem understanding or even recognizing my needs to start with..

 

[chado]

I think it's coming basically out of understanding people and their motivations and needs, I can easily choose the right approach and play on that, you need patience and not show all of your cards at once, always have a backup plan, I can also dilever messages only using body language and facial expressions.. but I am very careful to not use the manipulation to take advantage of others sometimes to the extent of being harsh on myself, but I learned to accept that it's just a natural charisma not necessarily a manipulation.. I think manipulating others is an abuse of power..
I usually use persuasion to communicate my ideas or for the group benefits, but it's really hard for me to communicate my own needs and benefits, I think I have a problem understanding or even recognizing my needs to start with..

hey nice realy nice!!

 

[chado]

What does the person value? Does he value money? Admiration? Security? Status? Success? Happiness? Acceptance? Play into the ego of whatever they value most. But oftentimes a person will value something a lot on the surface because of something else below the surface. So playing to the surface values will tend to only work temporarily and then they want something "more" out of life. That's why people will tend to project one thing when they ultimately want something else (but they don't know it yet).

What does he fear? Chaos? Loneliness? Embarrassment? Lack of respect? Invalidation?

How do you make the individual feel valued, important, special? Is there anything you can do to provide that?

thanks,hey since you have fe ni you must be good at reading people do you often get insights into people,like motivations,intensions were they comming from,and even deeper like into your subconious,or there psychological makeup like realy getting into the mind of another like eg if you were to hang out all day with a friend?

 

[chado]

I learned I could manipulate almost anyone as a teenager. Girls were easy targets. Teachers and other adults, too. I even flipped an ultra-right winger classmate (John Bircher type) into a Communist for kicks and giggles.

Understanding others so easily makes it so I could see what they wanted and needed and how to get there, often long before they even were clued in consciously. I don't even need to think to do this and can jump in on the fly and convince most people.

But, around 18, I decided I couldn't just do that. My ENTP bro is a master manipulator and I didn't want to be like him. I felt responsible for the outcomes. I couldn't do the ESTP manipulation of others for profit. It is just so against my nature and values.....

"With great power comes great responsibility"........

hey since you have fe ni how good are you at reading people,motivations intensions,even subconsious infleunces,you say qoute''often long before they even were clued in consciously'' can you see into peoples subconsious and things about them that they are not even awe of?give an eg

 

[Tilt]

thanks,hey since you have fe ni you must be good at reading people do you often get insights into people,like motivations,intensions were they comming from,and even deeper like into your subconious,or there psychological makeup like realy getting into the mind of another like eg if you were to hang out all day with a friend?

Yes. IF I choose to let them in and it depends on who it is... I am not that way with everyone!