Opening Men Up Emotionally

[SpankyMcFly]

Obviously going full mgtow means those men will literally be bred out of existence, but I think it is possible to procreate and enter family life whilst adopting some of their core tenets.

I'd like to address this. MGTOW adapted to a social situation, I'd even call the impetus evolutionary in origin, namely inequity aversion (see video below). MGTOW were not conditioned from birth. That is an old paradigm; the best way to pass on an idea/way of being is to your children. Social media has changed everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequity_aversion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem

P.S. MGTOW do not eschew sex, btw

P.S.S. MGTOW are the capuchins on the left

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Honestly, no one likes condoms.

And. The onus really is on the man, because without his semen inside her, she would not get knocked up. Women are walking seed beds of life. It's like, DUH.

It's almost humerous how pawn-like men are in the procreation game of life.

Or she could say no and close her legs?

Man: "Ah shit , I don't have a condom, you on the pill?"
Woman: No, I'm not on the pill.
Man: I still want you.
Woman: Ok!
Man: Opps...

This whole thing stops when she says "Sorry, I don't know you that well and I don't want to take the risk." (Rape excluded obviously, but most unplanned pregnancies are not the result of rape).

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'd like to address this. MGTOW adapted to a social situation, I'd even call the impetus evolutionary in origin, namely inequality aversion (see video below). MGTOW were not conditioned from birth. That is an old paradigm; the best way to pass on an idea/way of being is to your children. Social media has changed everything.

P.S. MGTOW do not eschew sex, btw

Right.

We'll start seeing more MGTOW men going other routes to have children, i.e. surrogates, adoption, et al.

There's already a number of male celebrities who are pretty much MGTOW in all but name (DiCaprio, Jim Carrey, et al). Eventually some highly desirable younger, male bachelor celebrity will come out and claim MGTOW status (perhaps not using that exact term) and it will have a huge impact on people of both sexes in a culture that so highly values marriage. Imagine if we elected a mgtow president? Of course the media would spread rumors he was gay, but that argument is silly in today's climate where gay marriage is easy and people are becoming more tolerant of gay culture.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

These are called consequences for bad choices. If it's government policy to give massive amounts of benefits to single moms then how is that any different from an advertisement to encourage women to get pregnant with low rent men? If you look at the graph (seriously, look!) a woman making $29,000/yr could effectively be making near $60,000 just by milking the system. Sure some of these women are smart enough to make $60,000/yr in the real world but most of them simply lack the education and I'd argue IQ to do so.





These are consequences for bad choices. I think its rather shitty to absolve men or women from the responsibility and consequences of their choices. Rewarding them seems counterproductive don't you think?



Again you're absolving the women here of any moral responsibility framing them as the victims. I think that's disrespectful to women in general to not hold them accountable and to blame a man for 'creating' the hot mess.





I disagree with this because ever since the state has been involved the number of single women pregnancies have sky rocketed. Every program they've instituted only resulted in more of the problem they're trying to 'fix.' No, upon examination, giving single moms more than twice their normal income in benefits ( equal to a highly educated men or women that worked for it) creates a permanent underclass of dependents which means a guaranteed voting base for those who pander to them.

I see what you are seeing. And i understand what you are saying. Women should be held accountable for their harlotry. But in the end the children are who will suffer if we don't help them. Even in married families, children are starving according to startling statistics. And the women I help are nice, loving moms who honestly want to provide the best they can for their kids, they aren't bad people who are trying to take advantage of the system, though they are willing to take aid if available.

You are making the assumption that knowing they won't get aid will someone keep people from having procreation sex. I just don't see that happening. People fuck first, and flounder later. Thinking is not a part of the process usually.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Maybe you can teach a class to your comrades in this method.




Most of the responsibility falls on them because they have the injectable required. And it isn't me that has placed this responsibility on them. It is God. With great privilege comes great responsibility, peter. Having a dick is a great privilege.

I've been 100% successful so far with the "pull out" method but that doesn't mean the risk isn't still there. I even pull out when I have a condom on! Again, the woman is the gate keeper and can chose to close up shop by simply closing her legs to a man she can't be sure about.

Again, absolving women of moral responsibility in this area ( or any area) is extremely degrading to women in general IMO.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Or she could say no and close her legs?

Man: "Ah shit , I don't have a condom, you on the pill?"
Woman: No, I'm not on the pill.
Man: I still want you.
Woman: Ok!
Man: Opps...

This whole thing stops when she says "Sorry, I don't know you that well and I don't want to take the risk." (Rape excluded obviously, but most unplanned pregnancies are not the result of rape).

You've been on the high sees too long, methinks, Matey.

Once you are in a position for sex, backing it is difficult to say the least. amirite?


The answer being, of course, to not put oneself in position for sex....until one is in a mutual loving relationship/marriage.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I see what you are seeing. And i understand what you are saying. Women should be held accountable for their harlotry. But in the end the children are who will suffer if we don't help them. Even in married families, children are starving according to startling statistics. And the women I help are nice, loving moms who honestly want to provide the best they can for their kids, they aren't bad people who are trying to take advantage of the system, though they are willing to take aid if available.

You are making the assumption that knowing they won't get aid will someone keep people from having procreation sex. I just don't see that happening. People fuck first, and flounder later. Thinking is not a part of the process usually.

Right. people have fucked without thinking of the consequences since the dawn of time.

I don't see the elimination of welfare ending this. Like I said earlier, the extended family used to fill the role that the state does in the present age for single moms.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

Well first we can stop this:

While elements of modern society may view the role of males as disposable and fluid the data suggests that diminishing male presence is causing all kinds of clusterfucky problems.

I think you will like this video.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

You've been on the high sees too long, methinks, Matey.

Once you are in a position for sex, backing it is difficult to say the least. amirite?

It's called education and self-control, and it can be learned by people of both sexes. Being horny and in the heat of the moment does not completely remove a person's self-control.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Even in married families, children are starving according to startling statistics.

What statistics?

Check this statistic out which starkly contradicts this claim:

I just don't see that happening. People fuck first, and flounder later. Thinking is not a part of the process usually.

This is the problem, isn't it?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

What statistics?

Check this statistic out which starkly contradicts this claim:

This is the problem, isn't it?

Yes, I think so. Casual sexual hookups. I said it in the beginning.

I would posit that as we fall away from our Christian roots, the problem progresses at the same-or even exponential-rate.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

The answer being, of course, to not put oneself in position for sex....until one is in a mutual loving relationship/marriage.

Think of this analogy. Imagine I'm some drunk fuck dude you met in a bar. I go up to you and say "Hey, give me your keys so I can drive you home." For some reason or another (maybe you think I'm hot ) you consent to giving me your keys and driving you home. On the way I swerve and hit someone and quickly kill them. So what happens is that I get arrested and imprisoned. Me, the bar serving me drinks, and everyone/everything are blamed for the tragic accident but you are not. Instead, you get a brand new car! Furthermore, the law states that any woman that gives a drunk man her keys and gets her car wrecked will receive a new car should there be an accident while he is to be held 100% liable for any damages.

The relationship doesn't have to be a fairly tale loving one, it just needs to be a trusting one. It's one where you and your partner trust that whatever happens you'll face it together.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Yes, I think so. Casual sexual hookups. I said it in the beginning.

I would posit that as we fall away from our Christian roots, the problem progresses at the same-or even exponential-rate.

Even though I'm an atheist ( a 6 on the Dawkin's scale) I appreciate the Judeo-Christian emphasis on familial responsibility. I agree, I think modern liberalized statist society has fallen away from these values which strongly twists incentives.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Think of this analogy. Imagine I'm some drunk fuck dude you met in a bar. I go up to you and say "Hey, give me your keys so I can drive you home." For some reason or another (maybe you think I'm hot ) you consent to giving me your keys and driving you home. On the way I swerve and hit someone and quickly kill them. So what happens is that I get arrested and imprisoned. Me, the bar serving me drinks, and everyone/everything are blamed for the tragic accident but you are not. Instead, you get a brand new car! Furthermore, the law states that any woman that gives a drunk man her keys and gets her car wrecked will receive a new car should there be an accident while he is to be held 100% liable for any damages.

The relationship doesn't have to be a fairly tale loving one, it just needs to be a trusting one. It's one where you and your partner trust that whatever happens you'll face it together.

But if you end up having a guilt-murder-baby, then that is your responsibility. And if you are in prison, how is the woman supposed to get around if you ruined her car!! You are the one who forced the state to pick up the tab on her new car. Pay attention and be careful!

Men: 2 heads, 1 utterly worthless.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

But if you end up having a guilt-murder-baby, then that is your responsibility. And if you are in prison, how is the woman supposed to get around if you ruined her car!! You are the one who forced the state to pick up the tab on her new car. Pay attention and be careful!

Men: 2 heads, 1 utterly worthless.

You must have missed the part when she voluntarily gave him her keys.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

You must have missed the part when she voluntarily gave him her keys.

But once he was in the driver's seat, he killed someone!

I guess she should have just driven drunk. Things would have worked out better for her.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

But once he was in the driver's seat, he killed someone!

I guess she should have just driven drunk. Things would have worked out better for her.

Your logical consistency is astounding!

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Your logical consistency is astounding!

I know, right? I'm not a Ti aux for nothin.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

I know, right? I'm not a Ti aux for nothin.

 

[small.wonder]

Oh man, I just read through 6 pages of this thread and am so sad.

I love men. There is equal amount of blame on both gender sides for all things, espescially involving family, marriage and gender issues. Still, men in our current day culture are blamed a lot.

Disbelief is my only reaction when anyone would dare assert that single motherhood is majority at the fault of men! The only case in which that is true is rape. In a mutually consenting situation, even if the man in question is of questionable character, "deadbeat", what have you, a woman is totally responsible for who she sleeps with! If you sleep with a low character man, what do you expect? Because women are the carriers of children, is all the more reason to hold our bodies to higher standards than just sleeping with some guy (that you apparently wouldn't want to father children with? Whaaaat?). This selectivity really goes for both genders in regards to pregnancy. But really, removing a woman's responsabity for who she sleeps with is both absurd, and disrespectful-- so we are just helpless to say no, or something? Total crap.

I've spent most of my life watching men and women blame each other-- I am so sick of that. Succeed or fail, it's a two way street.

My brother got his girlfriend pregnant almost two years ago, and ended up marrying her (even though I don't think he would have in other circumstances) because he is a really stand up guy-- almost too standup sometimes. My SIL walks all over him sometimes, if not outright, then through manipulation. I almost punched her in the face last summer because of it. But no, my brother protects her.

I feel for this issue, on both sides of the gender wall. No one is innocent, and anyone who thinks their gender is an out-and-out victim is full of it.

*sigh*