• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NF] ENFx--"cult leader"?

Eluded_One

Building muscle memory in my brain
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
569
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
As I see it, this thread is associating FE with manipulation and charisma, which isn't restricted to type, so long as the correct audience is persuaded, and the intentions are exacted.

This confusion is the result from reading type descriptions over understanding cognitive functions. It's also the reason why MBTI is often overlooked with any merit, as authors have turned a pyschological study into some sort of pop-science to sell their books. To be clear, it is not a pop-science, but it is often brought to the general audience as such.
 

draon9

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,176
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so
Any type can be cult leaders
 

Masokissed

Spoiled Brat 🍒
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
941
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'm not a cult leader. I'm not a leader. I just have a cult following. Join today.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Mmm...I don't know. I think an ENFP could be a cult leader 'accidentally'. Maybe it's the sx-so thing for me (supposedly, we can start to 'embody' a cause), but I've had moments where I've accidentally inspired a following, only to watch it fall apart the moment I become aware and weirded out by it :laugh:

It seems to happen when you're focused on a common cause or even just a common meeting place in life, feel inspired by things and your enthusiasm sweeps other people up in that because they enjoy the 'ambiance', as such. I find that, as I get older, Te provides that stabilising hand to Ne and Fi becomes that inspiration well, so that you a) stick longer to that cause and b) actually are able to get organised enough to 'wield' people. It's not my general strength, but I personally balanced that out (when I got accidentally put in a leader position at work) by cheating with my NeFi - the instant it happened, I looked around me, saw the potential in the people I had available to me and recruited an ENTJ to do the logistics and an INTJ to strategise with - they even fought it at first because they felt like they were taking over as I gave them seemingly that much freedom. What they didn't realise was that I was managing their emotions and egos (they were quite young still), keeping them feeling good (it was a job that easily demotivated people) and inspired to do the best job they could be doing and tailoring their tasks exactly to their specific strengths, so I could do what I was best at - coaching the new kids, to evaluate their strengths, train them up and do exactly the same when the time came.

It's just..a different way of going about things. Much looser, maybe less traditional, a lot more focused on keeping inspiration and momentum going, but the bonds you create, the trust you generate and the unbridled creativity and inspiration you put into people tends to pay off, and generates people that would go through a fire for you (as we say in dutch) and vice versa, imho. You can go far on that :shrug:

People do things because they *want* to, not because they're told to - but because it is suggested to them, because you share that common goal and because the things that are suggested to them are particularly attractive to them as it gives their ego and their potential the exact opportunity they need to shine - and that's something most people are just hungry for. It's not every day that you're handed such a platform to just...go nuts, be creative and embody your strengths and actually test your own limits and just...shine. Some people spook at such freedom, for sure, but then that is something to hand off to a J to help manage or stabilise who clearly is demonstrating a desire for flexing their leadership capabilities, ime. Meanwhile, Ive found that any task that seems rough or difficult to figure out is something you want to toss a very independent STP as they'll crunch that baby up as long as you give them the run of the place to do so, and make it more manageable to be taken on and followed up by an SJ once they do - and subsequently lose interest and therefore are in need of a new problem to crunch :D

I will gladly admit though that my way of working not nearly as efficient or as focused as an ENFJ would do it, and doesn't look nearly as natural, I suppose. And I honestly don't feel comfortable doing it for a very long time or rather, I end up feeling very weird at having a 'higher' position than others, when I want them to be their own person - but in a company, when you're put in a clear position like that, you don't really have much of a choice that way. In social settings, I'll refuse to take that kind of role because I feel people should be themselves, do things of their own free will and use their brain instead of following others, so there, if it does happen, it happens accidentally and only for brief, pronounced periods, Ive found. Once you've been in that position with that group of people though, it does happen more..easily in the future, ime :thinking:

The thing is - this type of dynamic very much obscures the fact that you're any type of leader. It becomes more like a collaboration, really, even if people do sometimes defer to you or you somehow do end up having the final say. And Ive had people come into the group and try to 'usurp' it by attacking me because they thought they saw an opening - only to have them strongly put in their place by the others before I could even open my mouth. I didn't even have to - the group basically managed itself and any blatant lack of respect towards me (and I would've done the same for any of them) was dealt with efficiently and swiftly, as it was just deemed unproductive, harmful and utterly disrespectful towards the individual being attacked.
 

Riva

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
2,371
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
ENFJs are the cult leaders. Esp ENFJ males. Females just want to be the good girl.

Not the ENFPs, who are a bit to distracted and inconsistent in their habit, though extremely consistent in their values.

ENFP's....no. I can't see it. Plus they don't even seem to have an interest in moving people in that fashion. I'm also laughing about my two ENFP friends - they have a hard time getting their dogs to follow them. ENFJ's - no doubt about it. I occasionally tell my husband to not get all Jonestown on anyone when he's being persuasive.

Lolz.. It hurts their Fi to command/manipulate people to act against their authentic selves. Apparently this applies to dogs too.

ENFP - Follow me.
Dog - No.
ENFP - Good doggy, always be true to yourself.
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ENFJs are the cult leaders. Esp ENFJ males.

Admitted. All the same, we almost always mean well, and we do want to make the world a better place.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Admitted. All the same, we almost always mean well, and we do want to make the world a better place.
I would be intrigued to see what you're actually like in real life with all your claims. ;) I find ENFJ males quite interesting with the charm but usually with a good, healthy serving of well-meaning bullshit. It's fun to "bust your guys' balls"... coming from a female ENFJ. :D
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
A mature, self-aware ENFJ male is a pleasure to see in action. It's also a treat to bust their balls and do a little game of emotional chess - see what they've got :drool: :devil:
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ENFJs are the cult leaders. Esp ENFJ males. Females just want to be the good girl.
The archetypal mean girl is ENFJ.... :devil:
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I would be intrigued to see what you're actually like in real life with all your claims. ;) I find ENFJ males quite interesting with the charm but usually with a good, healthy serving of well-meaning bullshit. It's fun to "bust your guys' balls"... coming from a female ENFJ. :D

:newwink: I am a natural performer, as are you, presumably. I suspect you would enjoy the performance. And you would find it easy to "bust my balls" if you wanted to. I am an open book with very thin emotional/ethical boundaries. I am easy to hurt.
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
A mature, self-aware ENFJ male is a pleasure to see in action. It's also a treat to bust their balls and do a little game of emotional chess - see what they've got :drool: :devil:

It's even better to feel us in action, if you know what I mean (multiple entendres apply). :newwink:
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
It's even better to feel us in action, if you know what I mean (multiple entendres apply). :newwink:

Never *fully* got the chance for that, but I feel ya.. :smooch:
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,920
I never understood why people see ENFJs as some kind of "charismatic gods" ? To me in general they come as pretty much the opposite of that.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
:newwink: I am a natural performer, as are you, presumably. I suspect you would enjoy the performance. And you would find it easy to "bust my balls" if you wanted to. I am an open book with very thin emotional/ethical boundaries. I am easy to hurt.

Interesting, I wouldn't call myself a performer (I actually flounder in the spotlight). More mentally intense and private about my thoughts and emotions. But then again I am a 359 tritype... triple hidden...slow to expose myself. :devil:

I never understood why people see ENFJs as some kind of "charismatic gods" ? To me in general they come as pretty much the opposite of that.

Yes. Most IXTJs I have gotten to know seem to have that reaction to me.... but end up slowly warming up to me because I become useful to them and they perceive me as less stupid and more competent than they originally thought.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I never understood why people see ENFJs as some kind of "charismatic gods" ? To me in general they come as pretty much the opposite of that.

Your blindspot gives that reaction - it's normal. The reason is because you feel cared for and protected around them. They also are able to inspire a group to come together - people who before felt like strangers in an instant feel like friends and family and suddenly..you're no longer alone. Basically, there is common ground on which to build as the ENFJ picks up on that and uses that to platform on and bring everyone together while setting the stage/manipulating the environment to create the desired effect and ambiance. It makes you stand together as one and unite.

* This is ENFJs at their best, of course.
 

SearchingforPeace

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
5,714
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Your blindspot gives that reaction - it's normal. The reason is because you feel cared for and protected around them. They also are able to inspire a group to come together - people who before felt like strangers in an instant feel like friends and family and suddenly..you're no longer alone. Basically, there is common ground on which to build as the ENFJ picks up on that and uses that to platform on and bring everyone together while setting the stage/manipulating the environment to create the desired effect and ambiance. It makes you stand together as one and unite.

Pretty much. And it feels really natural, effortless. And, at its best, unobtrusive. No one feels "managed".
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Pretty much. And it feels really natural, effortless. And, at its best, unobtrusive. No one feels "managed".

It's interesting - I find I have access to that, but it does cost me more energy to not 'flip' back to NeFi, the longer it goes on. I feel like I'm 'on' and cannot just relax, kinda like being on stage. But in times of great unrest, when I find that I do have some pull in a group, I'll use it as a tool to keep the group together, when there just isn't an NFJ around :p

If I do it too long though, I really *miss* the silly switch that is Ne, though :D

I find that the key is to focus the conversation and to share the spotlight equally so that every member feels heard and appreciated, to then tie the individual povs together through a common red thread and channel the convo where you want it to go - kind of like handing the mic around in an audience with the speaker up front just facilitating the conversation and occasionally doing a bit of a performance bit or some light-hearted jokes, as a break, while checking meanwhile backstage for potential issues and getting the lighting and music juuuust right to create the flow you're looking for.

However, I'm sure there is more to it than that - I seriously doubt I have the full range of an ENFJ and I do find it a lot harder to do irl than online (except for when specifically using it to flirt :devil:). I also have to just...go for it, otherwise I get that 'deer in headlights' effect where my mind goes 'who the hell do you think you're fooling and who the hell do you think you are stepping into the spotlight like that - aint nobody wanna see that!' :laugh:
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,920
Yes. Most IXTJs I have gotten to know seem to have that reaction to me.... but end up slowly warming up to me because I become useful to them and they perceive me as less stupid and more competent than they originally thought.


Nope, that wasn't what I was saying. I was trully saying that I simply don't see that charisma. People who are rated as "greatest speech makers" history were never that impressive to me, they seem totally fake and repulsive to me. It seems that I rate "charismatic" in a different way than most people.


(I know that all of this is related to my type)
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
I was trully saying that I simply don't see that charisma.

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. If it wasn't, no one would flock around them.

What I find amusing is I will occasionally meet INTJ's who absolutely hate me, because they see me using charisma and crowd hearding, and therefore must be bad for that reason alone. It's not that terribly common though.
 
Top