[Fe] ESFJ e2 "The People's ENFP"

[Tilt]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]: i see you and [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] as quintessential ENFPs and [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] being a very Fi-heavy variant. It would be hard for me to imagine you guys as anything but... ENFPs. It would be hard to mistake any of you as ESFJs and vice versa. I see some humor in picturing that... Not, in any way, a malicious manner.

 

[Yama]

I can understand all that and could definitely see ESFJs mistype as ENFPs but they just seem so different... Fe Si manifests quite differently than Ne Fi. There is just a distinctly different vibe/energy from both types. I use Fe (ENFJ) as a dominant function so I can usually see it in others. Ne dominance reads completely different to me. I will expand on it more when I am more awake.

Yes, I agree, it should make them easy to tell apart--I think that is what [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] was touching on when she said that a lot of what people attribute to being ENFP qualities are actually the qualities of ESFJs who are mistyped as ENFP, which is what makes it difficult to tell apart.

 

[Tilt]

Yes, I agree, it should make them easy to tell apart--I think that is what [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] was touching on when she said that a lot of what people attribute to being ENFP qualities are actually the qualities of ESFJs who are mistyped as ENFP, which is what makes it difficult to tell apart.

That makes a lot of sense. I am just curious as to what are the characteristics that pseudo-ENFPs attribute to ENFPs that aren't really ENFP-ish? [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]
This is all quite interesting to me....I love learning about the nuances of people!

 

[Amargith]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]: i see you and [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] as quintessential ENFPs and [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] being a very Fi-heavy variant. It would be hard for me to imagine you guys as anything but... ENFPs. It would be hard to mistake any of you as ESFJs and vice versa. I see some humor in picturing that... Not, in any way, a malicious manner.

It's the 4, I swear


Edit: Also, it may be the age (I'm in my thirties). I've noticed that [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION] is likely more zany (the 7) than me in general, but she's close to my Fi usage and even heavier than I am on the Te, I think...

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], please may I be an ENFP 5w4? Someone sprinkle magic NF dust over my head.

Angel dust.

Oops. I started to type "anger dust."

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Ne (as I see it in ESJs) can come across as very playful and light-hearted.

It's completely different in ENFPs. Yes, they can certainly be playful and light-hearted, but their Ne is their life-force rather than their play-time fuel. I agree with Starry and Ne is a completely different animal in the dominant position. Perhaps Ne is more prominent in ESFJs of the 2 variety, hence the common mistypes?

A similar phenomenon might be that of ISJs with 5 fixes who mistype as ITPs--aka the Sheldon Cooper archetype. They tend to have decent use of Ti and are often closet intellectuals who can hold their own in a debate or discussion with INTs (among others), hence the mistype ("I'm very analytical and good at seeing differing perspectives, therefore I must be INTP"). However, tertiary Ti is a different beast than dominant Ti.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Sounds strange to say detached but I noticed ESFJs Fe isn't detached like an ENFP Fi. ESFJs have that Fe color "how" others "should" be in an adamant way that shows in their actions.

Even if they aren't controlling (although more sensitive types can read their expressions of their stalwart convictions as such), you know where they stand.

The ESFJ I know the most, when faced with alternative ways of thinking than their own, may just shake their head and chalk it up to 'people are crazy'. ESFJ's may be more personally invested in their loved ones, and they have a harder time detaching from their Fe in one on one.

ENFPs are flip side of that.

They take alternative views that don't jive with their own a bit more personally when it comes to 'the whole' They chew the fat inwardly against their own Fi and even if rejecting said views, it can come across as being 'offended'

In the same way someone spits out a food they don't like, let's say broccoli. Thatl isn't an insult to the chef per se, they could've cooked it perfectly but Fi can be seen like that. It really is their own translation of 'people are crazy'.

But they are less likely, I think, to impose this on a one on one basis with loved ones like an ESFJ might. They may seek understanding on one on one, but it is harder for ENFPs to reconcile these views in a broader perspective. The opposite of ESFJ.

Fi in ENFP has a little more dissonance from inside to outside. It doesn't push outward like demonstrative ESFJ Fe, It pursuades.

I will look into E2's as I am unfamiliar with that etype to speak on it but how would it color an ESFJ? How would it color an ENFP? Interesting.

 

[cascadeco]

.

Ill have to try again when I'm a bit stronger...but I'm very deliberately using "The People's ENFP" because I believe there is more ESFJ in what everyone claims to love about the ENFP - than ENFP.

Yeah, I think it has less to do with ESFJ's on the forum or elsewhere being clueless about themselves and how they operate, and thus mistyping, and more to do with info on the internet or in forums that make everyone else associate certain things with enfp that may have little to do with enfp alone. So it's as you said somewhere else, everyone else doing the typing incorrectly.

 

[Riva]

Alright Starry starts another thread.

I can imagine ESFJs mistaking themselves for being ENFPs.

Trying to put my thoughts into English words here, even when ENFPs give they don't give it all, they give and take and disappear. Their posting style is similar. No matter how much they like you, they would not (I don't think intentionally) give it all. Easiest explanation to this is that they are EPs who get easily distracted, however it is possible there is something else to it.

 

[Cellmold]

Interesting idea.

Though I doubt anyone would confuse me for an ENFP. Then again I'm not a 2.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Interesting idea.

Though I doubt anyone would confuse me for an ENFP. Then again I'm not a 2.

What types do you think ESFJ 6 could be confused with? ESTJ? ISFP? ENTP?

 

[Betty Blue]

It's the 4, I swear


Edit: Also, it may be the age (I'm in my thirties). I've noticed that [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION] is likely more zany (the 7) than me in general, but she's close to my Fi usage and even heavier than I am on the Te, I think...

I definately think ENFP's really shift a lot on perspective with maturity, this dosn't necessarily go along with chronological age... more experience as ENFP's tend to store all their data under experience and use it as and when. If Fi can be the subtype as per prior suggestion/theory then you'd def be that sub type.

I probably came off a lot more ESFx when younger. When in company I can be upbeat and more bouncy and excitable but it's harder to be like that alone or when nothing new/exciting is being discussed/introduced (include people in that ). But yeah I think my Te does translate more heavily, it add's to a slightly more brash delivery, which can come across a little too bluntly in text sometimes.

 

[Cellmold]

What types do you think ESFJ 6 could be confused with? ESTJ? ISFP? ENTP?

I have been confused with ENTP quite a few times and ESTJ less frequently but still once or twice.

But if you examine what I write or have written you'll see the lack of depth to any thinking demonstrated.

I think I've shifted as a person lately though and largely being a creature of negative energy that tries to push out past my external facade has drained my efforts. I've got no willpower to pretend any more.

At least I'm being more,' genuine '.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I have been confused with ENTP quite a few times and ESTJ less frequently but still once or twice.

But if you examine what I write or have written you'll see the lack of depth to any thinking demonstrated.

Don't sell yourself short.

 

[1487610420]

wel, dis is vary intrasting, bat I balive de mein thred too bee a litaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal ofe de pointe

 

[Cellmold]

wel, dis is vary intrasting, bat I balive de mein thred too bee a litaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal ofe de pointe

Dis al bout me maaan.

 

[HongDou]

I have seen the ESFJ zany side... It's a much more subdued Ne humor/punny for people who they tend to be closer to. It sometimes gives them an "inappropriate", raunchy, seemingly out of character sense of humor (kind of poking fun of Si observations and Fe "expectations"). However, the primary mode seems to be about fitting into whatever standards that they deem normal.

ENFPs are pretty zany all the time.... It's part of the charm. To me, it feels like a tidal wave. Lol

I'm going to quote what Anaximander here because I think what you're talking about here is actually is an ESFJ quality being misattributed to ENFP. Believe it or not, one of the qualities we've honed in on as a "people's ENFP" quality is the idea of being zany all the time. And the reason is it can be a quality for the ESFJ 2 over ENFP is just like you said - it's part of the charm.

Ne (as I see it in ESJs) can come across as very playful and light-hearted.

It's completely different in ENFPs. Yes, they can certainly be playful and light-hearted, but their Ne is their life-force rather than their play-time fuel. I agree with Starry and Ne is a completely different animal in the dominant position. Perhaps Ne is more prominent in ESFJs of the 2 variety, hence the common mistypes?

This is exactly how I feel about it. I think if you give an ESFJ 2, who is for the most part looking for positive interactions and experiences affirming their lovability, the tool of Ne and place them in a society that values weirdness and quirkiness they'll engage that side of themselves more because it provides them with more of what they need. The difference is just that too...it's a side of themselves. It's playtime fuel rather than a life force. The reason ESFJs can play up the "zany all the time" quality is because it's less harmful to them to have it criticized. An ESFJ could walk around a room all the time making comical noises or funny comments and not mind some responses poking fun at them because in the end they know they're valued and loved and what's being threatened is not a completely innate part of themselves, while for an ENFP the 6th or 7th look of "haha what the hell are you talk about" will start to get tiring because it's your life force being scrutinized.

 

[cascadeco]

I'm going to quote what Anaximander here because I think what you're talking about here is actually is an ESFJ quality being misattributed to ENFP. Believe it or not, one of the qualities we've honed in on as a "people's ENFP" quality is the idea of being zany all the time. And the reason is it can be a quality for the ESFJ 2 over ENFP is just like you said - it's part of the charm.



This is exactly how I feel about it. I think if you give an ESFJ 2, who is for the most part looking for positive interactions and experiences affirming their lovability, the tool of Ne and place them in a society that values weirdness and quirkiness they'll engage that side of themselves more because it provides them with more of what they need. The difference is just that too...it's a side of themselves. It's playtime fuel rather than a life force. The reason ESFJs can play up the "zany all the time" quality is because it's less harmful to them to have it criticized. An ESFJ could walk around a room all the time making comical noises or funny comments and not mind some responses poking fun at them because in the end they know they're valued and loved and what's being threatened is not a completely innate part of themselves, while for an ENFP the 6th or 7th look of "haha what the hell are you talk about" will start to get tiring because it's your life force being scrutinized.

This totally mirrors an esfj I know (who in the thread that spawned this discussion I was citing elements that seemed more enfp, hence my confusion). Ne is totally obvious in her, but it's in a humorous role, it becomes more a cloak they put on and really have fun with. With her, she's so F and screams F /people pleasing. Which should have been a more obvious clue to me, but really, the Ne is so in your face much of the time, it's easy to think it dominates .

vs yeah, actual unfiltered Ne dom is actually pretty heavy imo, and a very different beast.

 

[prplchknz]

This totally mirrors an esfj I know (who in the thread that spawned this discussion I was citing elements that seemed more enfp, hence my confusion). Ne is totally obvious in her, but it's in a humorous role, it becomes more a cloak they put on and really have fun with. With her, she's so F and screams F /people pleasing. Which should have been a more obvious clue to me, but really, the Ne is so in your face much of the time, it's easy to think it dominates .

vs yeah, actual unfiltered Ne dom is actually pretty heavy imo, and a very different beast.

What does Ne looks like in your opinion vs what ESFJs thinking they're Ne looks like. Examples please but all hypothetical ones. i want to see a comparison

p,s, sorry for getting all teachery

 

[cascadeco]

An ESFJ could walk around a room all the time making comical noises or funny comments and not mind some responses poking fun at them because in the end they know they're valued and loved and what's being threatened is not a completely innate part of themselves, while for an ENFP the 6th or 7th look of "haha what the hell are you talk about" will start to get tiring because it's your life force being scrutinized.

To hone in more on this, yeah, I do see a difference between reactions, esxj's Ne will get more of a 'haha you're weird/funny' response, vs enxp Ne will get more of a genuine 'whoa you're weird' response, not necessarily the haha version of it.

Perhaps esxj driver for using Ne in this context is to illicit this type of positive reaction/response (which I think is what you were saying?) vs Ne dom isn't really trying to illicit a response, they jsut ARE Ne, period. Are being themselves.