Alien vs Aliens

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

One of those rare instances in which a film's sequel is as good (some argue better) than the original.

I myself tend to waver back and forth between the two depending on my mood. One is sci-fi horror in its purest form: a slasher/haunted house flick set in a spaceship. The other is balls to the wall sci-fi action

Watching Alien, one feels utter hopelessness for the characters. Their demise seems inevitable and preordained from the moment they land on LV-426. Aliens, on the other hand, can be viewed as a direct reaction to that feeling of hopelessness..the odds may be stacked inordinately high against the heroes, but the viewer wants the them to at least go out with a fight, taking a few with them in the process. So your preference really depends on your mindset.

In terms of style and mood, I think Alien wins by miles. Ridley Scott makes films that may lack depth of character, but he more than makes up for that deficiency with his keen eye for detail and knowing what works in a scene. Character doesn't matter too much in Alien.. the greater human condition is what one is studying when they examine that film.

In depth of character, Aliens seems to have a slight edge, particularly if one watches the Special Edition. The themes of motherhood are pretty obvious, and it's interesting when one considers that the Alien Queen is herself operating on basic mother instincts; she is not too different from Ripley.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

In depth of character, Aliens seems to have a slight edge, particularly if one watches the Special Edition. The themes of motherhood are pretty obvious, and it's interesting when one considers that the Alien Queen is herself operating on basic mother instincts; she is not too different from Ripley.

That's one of the things I didn't like as much about Aliens. You don't have to deal with the mother instincts just because your protagonist happens to be a woman; Alien is actually the more progressive movie, although people typically assume the opposite to be true.

Likewise, all the side characters in Aliens are caricatures. They don't feel like actual people; they're more cartoons. Whereas the folks in Alien remind me of people I work with. My boss even looks like Dallas.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

That's one of the things I didn't like as much about Aliens. You don't have to deal with the mother instincts just because your protagonist happens to be a woman; Alien is actually the more progressive movie, although people typically assume the opposite to be true.

Likewise, all the side characters in Aliens are caricatures. They don't feel like actual people; they're more cartoons. Whereas the folks in Alien remind me of people I work with. My boss even looks like Dallas.

I like Dallas. I feel bad for his character. He's the quintessential lower-management guy trying to balance his concern for his employees with trying to not piss off upper management. It's interesting that Ripley (obviously the more "badass" female on the ship) survives. In most horror films, the mousy, quiet girl (Lambert) would be sole survivor. In that way, it is more progressive even than many current horror films. I'm looking at every film where Michele Rodriguez dies before the pretty blonde girl.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I like Dallas. I feel bad for his character. He's the quintessential lower-management guy trying to balance his concern for his employees with trying to not piss off upper management. It's interesting that Ripley (obviously the more "badass" female on the ship) survives. In most horror films, the mousy, quiet girl (Lambert) would be sole survivor. In that way, it is more progressive even than many current horror films. I'm looking at every film where Michele Rodriguez dies before the pretty blonde girl.

And see, the thing is, I always found Michelle Rodriguez more attractive than the pretty blonde girl.

Also, there's a woman who reminds me of Sigourney Weaver and a guy who reminds me of Yaphet Kotto sitting right next to each other.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Some perhaps underwhelming fyi about Aliens: Bill Paxton's lines "Game over, man! Game over!" were improvised.

To pick a favorite between the two is difficult, because it really is like comparing apples and oranges. I even thought the third one was good in its own nihilistic way.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I also like Ash as the film's real villain. The Xenomorph, like the Queen, is just following its instincts. Ash sums it up perfectly in his disembodied speech.

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And see, the thing is, I always found Michelle Rodriguez more attractive than the pretty blonde girl.

Agree. She is super hot.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

On the topic of characterization, if one watched Alien for the first time and were also unaware of the sequels and Ripley's current near-god status, I imagine they'd be surprised to learn she was the one constant character throughout (not counting those AvP abominations). Some early scripts for Alien 3 had her dying in the pre-credit. This would've been a bold move. I like Weaver but maybe this is the direction they should've taken the series.

 

[Totenkindly]

One of those rare instances in which a film's sequel is as good (some argue better) than the original.

I myself tend to waver back and forth between the two depending on my mood. One is sci-fi horror in its purest form: a slasher/haunted house flick set in a spaceship. The other is balls to the wall sci-fi action

Watching Alien, one feels utter hopelessness for the characters. Their demise seems inevitable and preordained from the moment they land on LV-426. Aliens, on the other hand, can be viewed as a direct reaction to that feeling of hopelessness..the odds may be stacked inordinately high against the heroes, but the viewer wants the them to at least go out with a fight, taking a few with them in the process. So your preference really depends on your mindset.

In terms of style and mood, I think Alien wins by miles. Ridley Scott makes films that may lack depth of character, but he more than makes up for that deficiency with his keen eye for detail and knowing what works in a scene. Character doesn't matter too much in Alien.. the greater human condition is what one is studying when they examine that film.

In depth of character, Aliens seems to have a slight edge, particularly if one watches the Special Edition. The themes of motherhood are pretty obvious, and it's interesting when one considers that the Alien Queen is herself operating on basic mother instincts; she is not too different from Ripley.

I don't really have a steady "preference," it's more just based on what I'm in the mood for. Like others have said, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Alien focuses on brooding despair/inevitability, alienation/isolation, a very atmospheric space horror flick. Art design was paramount. Aliens is more of an action flick (beat-wise), with less focus on horror and more on human themes especially "motherhood." (And what says that humanity's motherhood is more important than the aliens? Pretty much it just comes down to, "we're human and they're not.")

Cameron in general actually puts out expanded editions that improve on the original; that's not always the case with other directors. Even the expanded edition of Avatar makes the movie a bit better, even if it's still got a lot of problems. You see this in comparing the various versions of T2 (although the "happy ending" isn't so hot); the expanded editions make the story even better and the T1000 even more interesting.

Anyway, both movies make me 'feel' things very strongly, experiences I happen to enjoy, they just tend to be different emotions. You won't get much laughs from Alien, but there's some great amusement in Aliens -- and yes, much of it through Hudson, it's probably one of Bill Paxton's better performances. Pretty much everything he says is quotable.

I have mixed feelings about Alien3 and kind of just block it out of mind as non-canon. That whole production was a mess, which didn't help; and the way they handled the first ten minutes of the movie was really a slap in the face. Still, you see the seeds of Fincher's artistic genius starting to germinate here.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I don't really have a steady "preference," it's more just based on what I'm in the mood for. Like others have said, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Alien focuses on brooding despair/inevitability, alienation/isolation, a very atmospheric space horror flick. Art design was paramount. Aliens is more of an action flick (beat-wise), with less focus on horror and more on human themes especially "motherhood." (And what says that humanity's motherhood is more important than the aliens? Pretty much it just comes down to, "we're human and they're not.")

Cameron in general actually puts out expanded editions that improve on the original; that's not always the case with other directors. Even the expanded edition of Avatar makes the movie a bit better, even if it's still got a lot of problems. You see this in comparing the various versions of T2 (although the "happy ending" isn't so hot); the expanded editions make the story even better and the T1000 even more interesting.

Anyway, both movies make me 'feel' things very strongly, experiences I happen to enjoy, they just tend to be different emotions. You won't get much laughs from Alien, but there's some great amusement in Aliens -- and yes, much of it through Hudson, it's probably one of Bill Paxton's better performances. Pretty much everything he says is quotable.

I have mixed feelings about Alien3 and kind of just block it out of mind as non-canon. That whole production was a mess, which didn't help; and the way they handled the first ten minutes of the movie was really a slap in the face. Still, you see the seeds of Fincher's artistic genius starting to germinate here.

I used to think it was stupid the way Newt, Hicks and Bishop were so easily written out, but it kind of works in further framing the alien as something truly deadly that won't hesitate to kill children and the wounded or anything else it encounters. Still, the fact that Ripley just happens to be the sole survivor (again) is fishy. A bolder move would've been to kill her and focus on either a new character or perhaps Newt, but obviously Weaver was the star by that point.

 

[Totenkindly]

I used to think it was stupid the way Newt, Hicks and Bishop were so easily written out, but it kind of works in further framing the alien as something truly deadly that won't hesitate to kill children and the wounded or anything else it encounters. Still, the fact that Ripley just happens to be the sole survivor (again) is fishy. A bolder move would've been to kill her and focus on either a new character or perhaps Newt, but obviously Weaver was the star by that point.

I didn't see it as convincingly internally driven, I saw it as "we don't want to tell a story with those characters, so let's just murder them before the next story to clear the stage." Pretty shitty move for them to immediately disregard anyone who invested in the prior movie, and it suggests that investing in the unfolding movie might be a waste of time if anyone you care about will just be killed off-stage out of convenience before Alien 4, so it's counterproductive to the success of Alien3. It didn't fit the tone of the prior movie either.

It should really be one of the Top Ten "Screenwriting Sequels" list of things not to do. (At least Nightmare on Elm Street had the kindness to grant old characters an on-screen dedicated-spot death at the movies' beginnings; although in that series it's pretty much a given no one will ever survive very long.)

I like Dallas. I feel bad for his character. He's the quintessential lower-management guy trying to balance his concern for his employees with trying to not piss off upper management. It's interesting that Ripley (obviously the more "badass" female on the ship) survives. In most horror films, the mousy, quiet girl (Lambert) would be sole survivor. In that way, it is more progressive even than many current horror films. I'm looking at every film where Michele Rodriguez dies before the pretty blonde girl.

I wanted to stuff a bunch of socks in Lambert's mouth. Dear god. Take some responsibility for your own survival rather than whining and crying and screaming literally all the time. I don't even understand how they thought she was mentally strong enough to survive a long-term mission in space, she seemed like a pretty fragile egg -- although maybe her options were few and the Company was exploiting people with no other options. Still, it created a memorable character I guess -- i've never forgotten her.

I liked Dallas a lot, and I got the same vibe off him. I think he's a pretty decent guy who was stuck in between competing concerns, and in the end he takes responsibility for his crew and remains pretty darn level-headed throughout.

"Sunshine" reminds me a lot -- look and feel wise -- of "Alien." You definitely have the same basics (crew in danger isolated in the depths of space), and Kaneda and Dallas offer the same kind of stability + being willing to undergo horrible dangers in order to protect their crew even when what happened wasn't necessarily their fault. They both take responsibility, though.

Not to mention how both movies

as a plot device jerk that stability out in order to undermine the calm and focus of the crew.

 

[Qlip]

It blows my mind that Alien came out in 79' and the project had essentially been canned until Star Wars became a hit. I think I'll always prefer Alien because of the vision required to make it. The movie was influenced by a short story collection called Strange Relations, science fiction about alien reproduction, it's really messed up. I highly recommend it.