Classes in School

[fetus]

English has always been my favorite by far. The English teachers were the ones who actually had a clue about what was going on in my life. Consequently, I was sent to guidance a lot.

Math has brought me to tears. It baffles me how numbers can have such a powerful effect on my mood.

 

[Showbread]

Math has brought me to tears. It baffles me how numbers can have such a powerful effect on my mood.

I relate SO much.

I have always absolutely hated math. I've cried over math homework an embarrassing number of times. I just never found it interesting, numbers feel very empty and boring to me. Especially compared to history or literature which are full of people and events. I have ADHD, so focussing on things I don't find interesting is extremely difficult for me. This made math class excruciating because I would get bored, drift off, then come back and have no idea what we were talking about, get frustrated, then give up. This pattern has repeated itself for pretty much my entire education. To make matters worse, being a 3 I really hate doing things I'm bad at in front of others. Math class was generally a place of failure and humiliation.

I've always loved giving presentations and pretty much anything related to communication/verbal skills. Before college I would say English was probably my favorite, even though I'm awful with grammar.

 

[Galena]

English: Very good at it, but I didn't see it that way because I was personally invested and expected perfection from myself. Could not stand to make mistakes.

Creative writing: The good part of English. At a certain point in one class, I could just turn in anything I felt like writing, whether related to the assignments or not, and it wouldn't bring down my 110+ grade.

Math: No. Except for statistics and geometry. Once it became too abstract to apply visuals to the learning, it was over. Calculus in particular never even began to make sense.

Science: This one brought the most tears. I was very interested and found the subjects beautiful in theory, but just not good at them, especially the more they intersected with math and as they became more theoretical in ways that defied tactile representation. I gave it my best but burned out messily.

History: It was boring until I met an ENTP teacher in high school who made it one of my favorite subjects by emphasizing a narrative feel and infusing it with a dark sense of humor. Never lost interest again.

Art: Much like English. Good at it, yet took it personally and died over every failure. Silently seethed in envy over/crushed on one other student in particular, a comparatively uninhibited 4w3 sx.

Sports: Was not confident enough when I was young to get anywhere with these. I am way more coordinated now as a healthier adult. For the longest time, I thought I wasn't an athletic type, but really just didn't believe in myself enough to know myself.

 

[Yama]

I'm with [MENTION=24479]themightyfetus[/MENTION] and [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] on math. I get so frustrated with math so quickly. It just doesn't click and made me cry a lot. I remember in my high school woodworking class the teacher gave us an assignment where we had to add and subtract fractions and I had a breakdown because I just did not understand at all. And the way schools push math nowadays, it's like if you don't understand it they treat you like you're stupid.
[MENTION=17945]Nixie[/MENTION] -- creative writing was one of my favorites!! It's soooo much more interesting than regular old boring English classes! So much more freedom, imagination and fun!!

 

[Kas]

Why so many people don't like math? For me it were the most inspiring classes. It wasn't about memorizing things but about solving puzzles. Who doesn't like that?
My second favourite was chemistry. But I also liked very much literature and philosophy classess.

I never liked history. The only interesting part was why something happened, but to remember what and when... not so easy

 

[Frosty]

Why so many people don't like math? For me it were the most inspiring classes. It wasn't about memorizing things but about solving puzzles. Who doesn't like that?
My second favourite was chemistry. But I also liked very much literature and philosophy classess.

I never liked history. The only interesting part was why something happened, but to remember what and when... not so easy

Right!? I always liked math, never really liked the homework parts of it and generally avoided it as best as I could, but on the whole I thought that math was pretty interesting. It really does depend on how it is taught though, if you are stuck in a class where you are just given formulas to blanketly use to solve problems then sure math can be a chore and you will probably not be able to retain much or really further your understanding needed for more advanced math.

But I had one guy who would explain the history behind all of the math terms, what each of the formulas meant, and why you used a certain method as opposed to another. Math can be really cool when you actually try to understand it wholly instead of of just blatantly accepting what you are told and then just plugging and chugging. Anyone can understand math, it just generally is not taught right in schools.

Loved philosophy, loved psychology, disliked creative writing (Just the way it was taught, the teacher who taught it would have these dramatic crying fits weekly where she would talk about how she was going to burn in hell and how she was going to die alone and how her father used to hit her with beer bottles and stuff like that and I would always get sent to the office for laughing, sounds bad but I mean if you saw her...), loved chemistry, marketing, and I loved spanish.

I hated gym though. I never really understood why I had to take it, it wasn't like I was completely enoromous or anything and I needed it for my health. And the standards seemed as if they were based off of the performance of the incredible hulk, 50 pushups? No thanks, I can maybe do 2. Aerobics was the worst because we had to do all these different complicated poses that I could never do. I forgot my gym clothes on a near daily basis because he had a rule that if you didnt bring them then you couldn't participate.

Honestly though if I have kids I most likely would not put them in public schools. Too much emphasis is placed on quantity of information instead of quality. I would like to let them purse whatever they were interested in and explore it along side them. Homeschooling is just so much better, you can really go in depth and focus so much more on the individual and help to turn those gears.

 

[á´…eparted]

Why so many people don't like math? For me it were the most inspiring classes. It wasn't about memorizing things but about solving puzzles. Who doesn't like that?
My second favourite was chemistry. But I also liked very much literature and philosophy classess.

I never liked history. The only interesting part was why something happened, but to remember what and when... not so easy

I for one, hate puzzles. They can solve themselves.

 

[Cygnus]

Why so many people don't like math? For me it were the most inspiring classes. It wasn't about memorizing things but about solving puzzles. Who doesn't like that?
My second favourite was chemistry. But I also liked very much literature and philosophy classess.

I never liked history. The only interesting part was why something happened, but to remember what and when... not so easy

The problem I had was a focus on process vs. results. I'm a guru at anything involving writing becuase the mental "algorithm" I have for writing is pretty much perfect -- just gather the facts your class is asking for, plug them into the writing formula, and you've produced a paper.


Math classes require you to learn several processes very quickly and apply them to brief instances involving little information. You can't think creatively in numbers unless you have an expertise in them. You can't develop expertise because the classes don't go very in-depth about how to apply each formula or technique into a broad range of real-world scenarios -- they touch on a formula, drill you through a list of problems, and move on to the next process, all far too quickly for comfort. There's nothing "scientific" about it -- it's like making you do push-ups and then telling everyone you're automatically a soldier. You can't retain knowledge for long unless there's a meaning tied to it. A number has no meaning -- it's a quantity. Nothing more.


You can't solve a puzzle when there's too little general knowledge on which to brainstorm.

 

[Frosty]

The problem I had was a focus on process vs. results. I'm a guru at anything involving writing becuase the mental "algorithm" I have for writing is pretty much perfect -- just gather the facts your class is asking for, plug them into the writing formula, and you've produced a paper.


Math classes require you to learn several processes very quickly and apply them to brief instances involving little information. You can't think creatively in numbers unless you have an expertise in them. You can't develop expertise because the classes don't go very in-depth about how to apply each formula or technique into a broad range of real-world scenarios -- they touch on a formula, drill you through a list of problems, and move on to the next process, all far too quickly for comfort. There's nothing "scientific" about it -- it's like making you do push-ups and then telling everyone you're automatically a soldier. You can't retain knowledge for long unless there's a meaning tied to it. A number has no meaning -- it's a quantity. Nothing more.


You can't solve a puzzle when there's too little general knowledge on which to brainstorm.

What about classes like statistics which answers are generally open to more interpretation? If math is taught in a way where the reasoning behind what exactly the basis is for solving a certain problem is made clear, as in it is taught more in the way one would tell a story, do you think that would make math more appealing? It seems that so many people struggle with math, I myself did not like algebra not because I couldn't do it but because it was taught in a way where as long as you could remember what the teacher told you to do, you never really had to understand what you were actually doing. If the calculator is doing the work, then your brain is not. Anyway, do you think there is some sort of way to improve the way math is taught in schools, and change peoples perception of math in general, without losing the groups that really 'learn' by rote memorization and applied formulas?

 

[Cygnus]

What about classes like statistics which answers are generally open to more interpretation? If math is taught in a way where the reasoning behind what exactly the basis is for solving a certain problem is made clear, as in it is taught more in the way one would tell a story, do you think that would make math more appealing? It seems that so many people struggle with math, I myself did not like algebra not because I couldn't do it but because it was taught in a way where as long as you could remember what the teacher told you to do, you never really had to understand what you were actually doing. If the calculator is doing the work, then your brain is not. Anyway, do you think there is some sort of way to improve the way math is taught in schools, and change peoples perception of math in general, without losing the groups that really 'learn' by rote memorization and applied formulas?

Calculators should be prohibited from the more basic of arithmetic equations. You should learn to multiply and long-divide large numbers in your head. In the wild, there is no paper and pencil.



Curriculum should have a greater focus on actively associating each individual technique and scenario with multiple instances of real-world application, an understanding of how the problems are used and why logic dictates that they function this way, otherwise the techniques will inevitably fade from student memory upon even slight disuse. All learning is by Association. Association must have meaning.





You know why we're typing right now on computers, right? We were taught how to write. We only gained ability to write lucratively when we understood the meanings behind all words said, all comparisons drawn, all abstractions made. All of these things are tied to words we learned to associate with objects or ideas, not because we chose to, but because the stimulus was constant, because we needed to identify everything in order to understand everything.


Similarly, you can't take mathematics to a higher level unless the students are regularly practicing every technique as commonly as we practice speaking and writing in daily life. To do this, we must be directed and trained how to associate higher and higher types of equation with broader and broader fields of problems. Once we learn how to apply equations to scenarios, we can learn to figure out to associate new equations to new problems in new ways, and mathematics will indeed become like a language.
Ditto for Physics.

 

[Frosty]

Calculators should be prohibited from the more basic of arithmetic equations. You should learn to multiply and long-divide large numbers in your head. In the wild, there is no paper and pencil.



Curriculum should have a greater focus on actively associating each individual technique and scenario with multiple instances of real-world application, an understanding of how the problems are used and why logic dictates that they function this way, otherwise the techniques will inevitably fade from student memory upon even slight disuse. All learning is by Association. Association must have meaning.





You know why we're typing right now on computers, right? We were taught how to write. We only gained ability to write lucratively when we understood the meanings behind all words said, all comparisons drawn, all abstractions made. All of these things are tied to words we learned to associate with objects or ideas, not because we chose to, but because the stimulus was constant, because we needed to identify everything in order to understand everything.


Similarly, you can't take mathematics to a higher level unless the students are regularly practicing every technique as commonly as we practice speaking and writing in daily life. To do this, we must be directed and trained how to associate higher and higher types of equation with broader and broader fields of problems. Once we learn how to apply equations to scenarios, we can learn to figure out to associate new equations to new problems in new ways, and mathematics will indeed become like a language.
Ditto for Physics.

But what about those who cannot keep up as efficiently as others? Do you leave some behind or do you teach to the lowest denominator? Should those who are not able to perform to the standards of the class abandon math altogether?

I think that instead of breaking different mathematical categories into different years, one standard math class should be taught year to year. As in as the class reaches the middle of one group of associated patterns of math another is introduced to supplement the material of the previous, and on and again. In depth overview of topic, what the topic actually means, and then how it relates to the topics before and after it. You could introduce geometry and then incorporate reasons why it ties in to trigonometry.

All in all I suppose I would say that teaching about the subject before teaching how to use a subject would be my view. Just build two steps forward, one back, one to the left and then one to the right, and keep building until you have a solid foundation instead of just laying down blocks without taking the time to cement them together.

I know this is pretty similar to what you just said.

 

[Yama]

I can do addition and subtraction on paper if decimals are not involved. Division? Multiplication? Can't do it without a calculator.

They always said "You won't have a calculator in your pocket when you graduate!" Uh... phone calculator. I'm good.

The truth is just, not all jobs need math. Some do, yes, very IMPORTANT jobs require a lot of complex math. But why force the kids like me who just suck at it and can not retain any of it after the test is over to keep taking more and more advanced math classes just to graduate?? High school should be more like college, I think. Instead of picking a degree, you pick a "course track" of some sort. Some are more math heavy. Some are more science heavy. Some are more literature-heavy. These courses would not block out the other subjects completely--just have less of it. That makes so much more sense to me. Like, if I suck that bad at math, you can bet your ass I'd NEVER go to college to become an engineer. So why force me to take so many advanced math classes when I'm just going to find a job with less math instead, since I'm so bad at it???? You know?

 

[INTP]

Well my middle school/junior high(or whats the equivalent in finland) grades were(on scale of 4=fail and 10=best):

Behavior - 8
Finnish - 6
Swedish - 6
English - 8
This pagan thing for those who doesent belong to church where we studied different religions, philosophies etc - 8
History - 7
Math - 7 (+ optional course 7)
Chemistry - 7
Physics - 7 (+ optional course 8)
Biology - 6 (+ optional course 7)
Geography - 6
Music - 7 (+ optional course 8)
Visual arts - 8 (+ optional course 9)
Hand crafts - 7 (+ optional course project work thing 9)
Cooking and some other home education stuff - 7 (+ optional course 7)
Physical education/training - 7
IT - 8
Philosophy - Passed, they didnt give grade for this
I dont have no idea how to translate this one, but basically teaching about how markets work and teaches about managing your own business etc - 9

Basically i didnt give a fuck and those numbers are pretty much what i got without reading much at all or doing any home work and trying to get away of nearly all things that we were required to do in school. So the numbers are pretty much about how much im interested about the topic, i didnt have to struggle at all, because i didnt care enough . I happened to have my graduation paper next to me when i saw the topic
The most problematic thing for me in general is to memorize things that i dont really understand(i need to have understanding to remember something, and then i remember the understanding of the thing rather than specific thing i should remember), especially if i dont care about them either.

 

[Yama]

I dont have no idea how to translate this one, but basically teaching about how markets work and teaches about managing your own business etc - 9

Is it economics? The one that comes to mind for me that sounds like a class I took in high school is economics. I did really bad at that one

 

[INTP]

Is it economics? The one that comes to mind for me that sounds like a class I took in high school is economics. I did really bad at that one

Well economics is bit broader thing, but those are part of economics yes

 

[Kas]

I know that some people just not like it. And I don't want to make everyone to study advanced math. I just think there is a reason why it was a nightmare for so many people. Usually they say like [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] that they sucked at it. So maybe there is a way to change it?

Common mistake of teachers is that they teach only pattern. Then students read exercise and pick the pattern and follow it. I was even told by math teacher that is easier for students that way. I don’t think so, it’s probably easier for teacher to check exercises done the same way.

I believe teaching like this is the reason why, when there is described practical problem, it’s hard for students to put it in numbers. So as [MENTION=20944]Cygnus[/MENTION] compared learning math to learning how to write, it’s like they teach few sentences instead of teaching alphabet. I know there is limited time, but it is very important to make basics understandable, to show various ways to solve problem, how to follow logic to create the pattern and not pattern itself. It should be done on every level of difficulty from the very beginning. Then I believe less students would hate math...

 

[Yama]

I know that some people just not like it. And I don't want to make everyone to study advanced math. I just think there is a reason why it was a nightmare for so many people. Usually they say like [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] that they sucked at it. So maybe there is a way to change it?

Common mistake of teachers is that they teach only pattern. Then students read exercise and pick the pattern and follow it. I was even told by math teacher that is easier for students that way. I don’t think so, it’s probably easier for teacher to check exercises done the same way.

I believe teaching like this is the reason why, when there is described practical problem, it’s hard for students to put it in numbers. So as [MENTION=20944]Cygnus[/MENTION] compared learning math to learning how to write, it’s like they teach few sentences instead of teaching alphabet. I know there is limited time, but it is very important to make basics understandable, to show various ways to solve problem, how to follow logic to create the pattern and not pattern itself. It should be done on every level of difficulty from the very beginning. Then I believe less students would hate math...

The math where all you had to do was follow a formula/pattern was actually the only part of it I was able to understand, because the numbers by themselves don't make any sense to me so I just kind plugged in the formula closed my eyes and crossed my fingers and hoped it worked and it usually did

 

[Frosty]

Right, while not everyone is going to go into something heavily math based, the problem solving methods that could be learned from the subject could be extremely helpful in assisting the development of logical thought processes that could assist in making sense of the world and help evaluate possible solutions to problems, from problems to solve in your mind to whatever may come up in the outside world. It isn't what math is learned, but what is learned from the math that is important. Not everyone is going to place as much practical importance on math, but everyone could benefit in some way from better improved, more flexible, and broadly taught more individually tailored teachings of math. It is sad that the subject has been reduced to something as arduous and mundane as just applying a formula to problems and ignoring why you are doing what you are doing. Math should not be a chore for anyone, and I believe that much of peoples frusteration with math is based off of years and years of scattered understandings caused by a teaching system that is just badly broken.

 

[Yama]

I mainly don't like math because unlike subjects like English, which are open-ended, math questions are like: right or wrong. You did it right or you didn't. Yeah, word problems try to add "practical" applications (although most of them are more amusing than practical), but at least in essays you can do it your own way and there's no one right/wrong way to do it. I think the thing I mostly hate about math is that it's not... well... I don't think realistic is the right word. It's too abstract, I guess? Like, I get that you APPLY it to real-world situations and at that point it becomes practical, but the way they teach it, it's all just numbers and signs and blegh. And then they throw in imaginary numbers and roots and radical equations and it's like... I'm out. I'd much rather learn problem solving from experience and just doing what feels right at the time than by trying to put math into it, but hey, that doesn't mean math's not important, and kudos to anyone who actually understands any of what's going on with that.

 

[Cellmold]

I for one, hate puzzles. They can solve themselves.

Good thing life is so straightforward and there are no mysteries.

Actually now I think on it I can't really remember any specifics about being taught in school. Most of what I learned I did on my own at home when I was interested. For example maths is not a strong subject for me (or many here it seems) but I make an effort to do mental calculations and so on partly because of my jobs but mainly because I thought it was important.

But I have to keep at it, I tend to lose the flow the second I stop practising or doing work related to numbers. I'm not sure if there is a particular method that would help me retain this information, but I would probably be open to it if it wasn't too time consuming.