Evolution vs. Creationism

[Frosty]

My friend and I were talking about religion the other day and she brought up that she doesn't believe in evolution. I asked her why she didn't since there was so much evidence to support it and she told me that she wasn't alone in her beliefs and that in fact creationism is the more popular opinion, and that in order to be a christian you had to reject evolution. I argued that you could believe in both, God created evolution, and that things are not so black and white. Anyways, I'd like to create a poll and see if in fact she was right, or if I am right in what the majority of the population truly believes. For the purpose of the survey, im going to limit it to the two answers below, but feel free to respond and explain in the comments.

Oh and sorry if this would be better suited in the religion section
So if you had to choose, creationism or evolution?

 

[pizzathegreat]

She essentially deflected the question.
She is right in saying to be Christian that you have to reject evolution, since they believe Adam & Eve were the first man in woman, thus skipping the traditional idea of evolution.
As far as popular opinion goes, I believe the majority of people still believe that God created everything, but the scale is tipping more and more towards evolution.

I'm not very knowledgeable on the theory of evolution, but I would go with evolution. I don't believe in God.

 

[Studmuffin23]

Faith in God doesn't have to be peer-reviewed. It doesn't rest on human knowledge, and never claimed to.

So yes, I'm a creationist via faith. But as far as the debate goes, neither of the theories make very strong cases in my opinion.

In reality, macro-evolution is more logical than empirical. It's built on a series of conjectures based on obscure data; they are very rational conjectures, but conjectures they remain.

The creationist case is not much different, only that the data cited is twice as obscure.

 

[violet_crown]

Whenever I think about the creationist v evolution "debate", I always think of a quote by Aaron Sorkin:

"Most of us have been raised to believe that there are two sides to every story, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. And that's simply not always the case. Sometimes there are five sides to a story, but sometimes there's just one. Sometimes the truth doesn't lie in the middle, it lies squarely on one side or the other."

It makes me weep for my country every time we have to entertain such obviously retrograde bullshit as creationism, especially in academic settings. In 2012, the US ranked 20th out of 34 OCED countries for K-12 science education, and 28th out of 65 countries overall. And yet, somehow, fundie dipshits are still able to push their sky cake agendas into curriculums. There is no fucking controversy. No more than there's "controversy" over whether our solar system is geocentric, or if the Earth might be flat. I don't have an issue with religion: I think it serves a perfectly valid societal function. But it needs to learn how to stay in its fucking lane.

 

[Frosty]

Yeah I have no problem with my friend having faith, its just that shes the type of person to get totally invested in an idea of something without fully doing the research on what it means. Once she does find something she dislikes about a topic, she will secretly be crushed because the topic will turn out to be less amazing than she originally thought it to be. Shes been religious for about 2 days, and I think that she is trying to connect to some sort of higher power, (great for her), but shes just getting in over her head.

Anyways, not the point of this thread.

Personally, I'm more of an agnostic. I wasnt raised with much religion, but I think it is stupid to completely reject the possibility of a higher power.

This probably should be in the religion thread sorry

 

[á´…eparted]

I feel no sympathy when I say this: I think people that believe in creationism and deny evolution are fucking morons.

Evolution is a scientificly fully working theory, and proven fact on the molecular level. Period. There is no debate on this, and I do not engage or entertain debate with people who don't accept it. Because it isn't even a debate in the first place.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, if people discuss the scientific underpinnings of evolution versus it just becoming another "YES THERE IS A GOD I BELIEVE" versus "NUH-UH I DON'T" thread, then it easily fits in the Science subforum.

And you don't have to 'debate' it, Hard, simply in order to explain what the scientific underpinnings would be.

 

[violet_crown]

Well, if people discuss the scientific underpinnings of evolution versus it just becoming another "YES THERE IS A GOD I BELIEVE" versus "NUH-UH I DON'T" thread, then it easily fits in the Science subforum.

And you don't have to 'debate' it, Hard, simply in order to explain what the scientific underpinnings would be.

You've become so jaded in your old age, my dear

 

[Totenkindly]

You've become so jaded in your old age, my dear

I've evolved.

 

[á´…eparted]

Well, if people discuss the scientific underpinnings of evolution versus it just becoming another "YES THERE IS A GOD I BELIEVE" versus "NUH-UH I DON'T" thread, then it easily fits in the Science subforum.

And you don't have to 'debate' it, Hard, simply in order to explain what the scientific underpinnings would be.

I am happy to explain the scientific function of it, if the person seems like they might be receptive, but it stops there. The second they say "god" I say " nope, try again, no scientific basis there". Thats what I mean by not entertaining a debate.

 

[Luke O]

My friend and I were talking about religion the other day and she brought up that she doesn't believe in evolution. I asked her why she didn't since there was so much evidence to support it and she told me that she wasn't alone in her beliefs and that in fact creationism is the more popular opinion, and that in order to be a christian you had to reject evolution. I argued that you could believe in both, God created evolution, and that things are not so black and white. Anyways, I'd like to create a poll and see if in fact she was right, or if I am right in what the majority of the population truly believes. For the purpose of the survey, im going to limit it to the two answers below, but feel free to respond and explain in the comments.

Oh and sorry if this would be better suited in the religion section
So if you had to choose, creationism or evolution?

The popular opinion isn't necessarily the correct one. Go back several hundred years, and the popular opinion in Europe was that the Earth was flat, with Jerusalem at its centre, and the Sun orbited the Earth. And that swallowing a small ball of arsenic was healthy.

 

[Luke O]

Yeah I have no problem with my friend having faith, its just that shes the type of person to get totally invested in an idea of something without fully doing the research on what it means. Once she does find something she dislikes about a topic, she will secretly be crushed because the topic will turn out to be less amazing than she originally thought it to be. Shes been religious for about 2 days, and I think that she is trying to connect to some sort of higher power, (great for her), but shes just getting in over her head.

Anyways, not the point of this thread.

Personally, I'm more of an agnostic. I wasnt raised with much religion, but I think it is stupid to completely reject the possibility of a higher power.

This probably should be in the religion thread sorry

It reads like she wants to believe rather than knowing something is there.

I want to believe in unicorns and fairies, doesn't mean I'm gonna get them.

 

[Showbread]

I feel no sympathy when I say this: I think people that believe in creationism and deny evolution are fucking morons.

Evolution is a scientificly fully working theory, and proven fact on the molecular level. Period. There is no debate on this, and I do not engage or entertain debate with people who don't accept it. Because it isn't even a debate in the first place.

Technically, don't scientific theories have to be falsifiable? Or is that just with Psych?

That said, there is extremely compelling evidence for evolution and denying it is pretty foolish. Therefore, I would like a "both" option. Many Christians believe that evolution did in fact take place but was initiated by a creator/higher being.

 

[ceecee]

My friend and I were talking about religion the other day and she brought up that she doesn't believe in evolution. I asked her why she didn't since there was so much evidence to support it and she told me that she wasn't alone in her beliefs and that in fact creationism is the more popular opinion, and that in order to be a christian you had to reject evolution. I argued that you could believe in both, God created evolution, and that things are not so black and white. Anyways, I'd like to create a poll and see if in fact she was right, or if I am right in what the majority of the population truly believes. For the purpose of the survey, im going to limit it to the two answers below, but feel free to respond and explain in the comments.

Oh and sorry if this would be better suited in the religion section
So if you had to choose, creationism or evolution?

That's the great thing about faith. You don't need evidence or proof. It simply is for the faithful. In the end, nothing that people with faith believe or don't believe is going to impact me at all and having a debate about it is pointless.

 

[Frosty]

I think that faith is different than following a full blown religion though. You can have faith in something bigger than yourself without it having to define every aspect of your life. If you sincerely believe that God created the heaven and the earth, then fine I absolutely respect that, but if you decide to believe in something just because it's the 'rules' or that religion to do so then you are just succombing to popular opinion without thinking it through and deciding what you truly believe. I suppose it is not my place to tell someone what they believe, as I really do not know how strongly they are attached to a particular idea, but I just do not like to see people fooling themselves.

 

[á´…eparted]

Technically, don't scientif theories have to be falsifiable? Or is that just with Psych?

That said, there is extremely compelling evidence for evolution and denying it is pretty foolish. Therefore, I would like a "both" option. Many Christians believe that evolution did in fact take place but was initiated by a creator/higher being.

Evolution could be proven wrong if new evidence surfaces as such. It doesn't get a free pass (nothing does). That said, it's such a solid theory that no reasonable biologist would operate under the assumption that it is wrong.

If people want to hold a creationist notion, that is fine. They just need to know that it can not influence how they see the theory and science itself. It is separate from all of that.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

My friend and I were talking about religion the other day and she brought up that she doesn't believe in evolution. I asked her why she didn't since there was so much evidence to support it and she told me that she wasn't alone in her beliefs and that in fact creationism is the more popular opinion, and that in order to be a christian you had to reject evolution.

She is right in saying to be Christian that you have to reject evolution, since they believe Adam & Eve were the first man in woman, thus skipping the traditional idea of evolution.

This is unquestionably 100% wrong, but for some reason it won't die as a part of these debates. Any "Christian" who asserts it needs to learn a little bit more about their own religion before they start telling others about it.

 

[93JC]

Technically, don't scientif theories have to be falsifiable?

Of course. Evolution has very famously been tested and argued for a long time, and has evolved (pun intended) as new hypotheses have been put forward.

 

[pizzathegreat]

This is unquestionably 100% wrong, but for some reason it won't die as a part of these debates. Any "Christian" who asserts it needs to learn a little bit more about their own religion before they start telling others about it.

Well, I suppose I could be wrong. My statement was purely based on a very basic knowledge of Christianity. I know more detailed accounts, but none relating to this topic. The ones I know believe in creation by design, and that is how I was taught growing up.
So my question is how is it wrong?

 

[Luke O]

Basically evolutionists and creationists need to fund physicists to build a time machine to prove once and for all who is right, and to make the losers stfu.