Jung on Ni-doms: "y'all a bunch of crazies."

[FemMecha]

I probably have a bit more Ti going on than this guy, but this is an example of Ni to the extreme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxCw-JasjA

Having spent 30 years of my life interacting with Ti-doms on a regular basis I can definitely describe the difference between the two functions. Ti has a logical inner construct of reality and when it encounters fragments of information that do not fit the construct, these are dismissed. Judging function decide the relevance of X before internalizing it. Ti is more likely to dismiss relevant information and makes more of an effort to focus on what can be determined as true and false.

Ni has a more speculative inner construct of reality and it absorbs every fragment it encounters. Because it views from so many perspectives, it can make the error of making connections or seeing significance where it doesn't exist. It can be misunderstood by others who assume ideas need to be determined as "facts". Ni is completely comfortable in the purely speculative realm.

As a Ni-dom who has exercised Ti for many years, I will say that my approach is to first determine the nature of the ideas and then to use the best tools for processing those ideas. Speculation is processed in a completely different manner than "facts". I see nothing as being 100% certain and so the inner puzzle working is rather complex where speculative ideas are held to the side in a kind of peripheral vision and every new fact is played with to see what constructs of reality they may fit with.

 

[INTP]

Marie-Louise von Franz (one of Jung's most famous pupils) declared that Jung was an N-dom.

This is untrue. Marie von franz said that jung(and also herself) is thinking intuitive and with inferior feeling:

@3:20

What comes to this:

But I most certainly was characterized by thinking. I overthought from early childhood on. And I had a great deal of intuition, too. And I had definite difficulty with feeling. And my relation to reality was not particularly brilliant. I was often at variance with the reality of things. Now that gives you all the necessary data for the diagnosis.

"Most certainly" refers to strongest. "Great deal.. too" refers to much of something also, but not as much as X. "Definite difficulty" refers to weakest. "Not particularly brilliant" refers to lacking it, but not lacking as much as something else. Speaking in this sort of logical "code" seems very INTP, but i just dont understand how deciphering this sort of easy code is so hard for some people(and it seems like Jung himself didnt figure out that its not all that other types need to type him, typical INTP mistake i might say).

 

[Paladin-X]

This is untrue. Marie von franz said that jung(and also herself) is thinking intuitive and with inferior feeling:

It's not untrue. At best you have a contradiction. From the link in the post where you've quoted [MENTION=18736]reckful[/MENTION] from:


Furthermore, Marie Louise von Franz states in her lecture on “The Inferior Function”:

“An intuitive type, for instance, will generally have a strong desire to fix his active imagination in clay or in stone, making it materially visible in some way. Otherwise it will not seem real, and the inferior function will not come in. Jung, being an intuitive, discovered it first by the need to build little clay and stone castles, and from that experience he discovered the problem that is constellated by the fourth function.”

I have this book as well. She said this ^ too.

 

[INTP]

It's not untrue. At best you have a contradiction. From the link in the post where you've quoted [MENTION=18736]reckful[/MENTION] from:


Furthermore, Marie Louise von Franz states in her lecture on “The Inferior Function”:

“An intuitive type, for instance, will generally have a strong desire to fix his active imagination in clay or in stone, making it materially visible in some way. Otherwise it will not seem real, and the inferior function will not come in. Jung, being an intuitive, discovered it first by the need to build little clay and stone castles, and from that experience he discovered the problem that is constellated by the fourth function.”

I have this book as well. She said this ^ too.

Maybe not, TiNe is intuitive. That quote doesent say about his dom function(or what the inferior is, which could be used to determine dom), it just says N > S. Also the interview is from her late life, at this point she might have realised that she typed him wrong earlier.

 

[Paladin-X]

Maybe not, TiNe is intuitive. That quote doesent say about his dom function(or what the inferior is, which could be used to determine dom), it just says N > S. Also the interview is from her late life, at this point she might have realised that she typed him wrong earlier.

The book is originally from 1971 and revised in 1986. The interview is from 1979.

 

[INTP]

The book is originally from 1971 and revised in 1986. The interview is from 1979.

Yes, the book was written 8 years before the interview. Do you happen to have a e-book version of it or is it paper?

 

[Paladin-X]

Yes, the book was written 8 years before the interview. Do you happen to have a e-book version of it or is it paper?

I have the paper version of Lectures on Jung's Typology and the kindle version of Psychotherapy (which includes the same, but slightly modified, essay).

 

[reckful]

This is untrue. Marie von franz said that jung(and also herself) is thinking intuitive and with inferior feeling:

Thanks for that video link.

I wouldn't be inclined to put that much stock in von Franz's verdict on Jung's type, and just pointed to that Vicky Jo post (about von Franz calling Jung an N-dom) as another example of the mix of views on Jung's type.

But I'd also note that that September 1979 interview (from some kind of "Remembering Jung" series) is at least arguably ambiguous with respect to whether von Franz viewed T or N as Jung's dominant function. Here's the transcript:

Q: In terms of his own typology, ... didn't he feel that he himself was a thinking intuitive?

MVF: Yes, he felt he was a thinking intuitive type.

Q: So ... the inferior function would have been somewhere in the feeling sensation realm...

MVF: Yes.

Q: And that would have been where all the imps and the devils played, I suppose — out of the unconscious...

MVF: Well, you see, for me, that would be difficult to judge, because I am a thinking intuitive, too. So I have also inferior feeling. So if there was a clash, you never knew quite whose inferior feeling. But I would say in 85% of the cases I had to see that it was mine.

Q: I see. So between the two of you, that would be a kind of dark area.

MVF: In that type it's difficult, because in one way you get marvelously on. As long as you keep to thinking and intuition, you get on completely. And then on the feeling area, you have trouble.

Jung sometimes referred to the fourth function as the "inferior function," but he also sometimes referred to all the unconscious functions as the "inferior functions." He thought that, in a typical case, both the third and fourth functions would be predominantly unconscious, fused together, "archaic," and — most importantly — problematic. In the 1959 interview I quoted in my earlier two-part post, he gave the interviewer the "data" for the type "diagnosis" by referring to the fact that feeling and sensation were both problematic for him.

So that 1979 von Franz interview could really be consistent with Jung as a T-dom with an N-aux or an N-dom with a T-aux.

And by contrast, in that paragraph [MENTION=1230]Paladin[/MENTION]X has quoted from Lectures on Jung's Typology (published in 1971), von Franz unambiguously refers to sensation as Jung's "fourth function" — which would mean he was an N-dom.

 

[GarrotTheThief]

Where are the quotations from Man in Search of His Soul where Jung states the psyche is not limited to a four fold structure, it is just that most of his patients had this structure, which essentially demonstrates that some may have 4 functions with both attitudes.

No one ever quotes that...probably like to keep this illusion of four alive.