Eugenics: what do you think?

[Mole]

[MENTION=21639]SilentMusings[/MENTION] what is the elite exactly who is part of it?

Aryans.

 

[Mane]

Aryans.

It's funny how those who believe in the survival of the fittest fail to see the obvious: Societies that attempted to force that internally did not survive.

History has proven it to be an unfit social structure, mathematical anthropological models have both proven it to be an unfit social structure and explained why, and yet people who believe in it keep asking to give it another chance - like an unfortunate mentally handicap child who keeps asking to given another chance at the test, to handicap to be aware of his own handicap... Trying to bring back an empirically & logically proven evolutionary dead end in the name of survival of the fittest.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Aryans.

Iranians?

 

[prplchknz]

fine you want eugenics. fine here's what we'll do we'll elect one female and one male of good stock and other shit that is very fertile kill everyone else. oh wait in less than a generation their would be inbreeding. this is what happens when you're too selective over who survives. you can't win retardation and deformaties and other "bad" things will still exist you might be able to rid of it for a generation or two but it will come back. so instead of attemtpting to erradicate it, why don't why just try to fix it?

 

[Mole]

Eugenics and Apple Pie

Iranians?

The Eugenicists sought to improve our breeding stock by getting rid of untermensch and breeding a master race. And it began in the USA and ended in Germany.

Eugenics was the racist pseudoscience determined to wipe away all human beings deemed "unfit," preserving only those who conformed to a Nordic stereotype. Elements of the philosophy were enshrined as national policy by forced sterilization and segregation laws, as well as marriage restrictions, enacted in twenty-seven states. In 1909, California became the third state to adopt such laws.

Ultimately, eugenics practitioners coercively sterilized some 60,000 Americans, barred the marriage of thousands, forcibly segregated thousands in "colonies," and persecuted untold numbers in ways we are just learning. Before World War II, nearly half of coercive sterilizations were done in California, and even after the war, the state accounted for a third of all such surgeries.California was considered an epicenter of the American eugenics movement.

During the Twentieth Century's first decades, California's eugenicists included potent but little known race scientists, such as Army venereal disease specialist Dr. Paul Popenoe, citrus magnate and Polytechnic benefactor Paul Gosney, Sacramento banker Charles M. Goethe, as well as members of the California State Board of Charities and Corrections and the University of California Board of Regents.

Eugenics would have been so much bizarre parlor talk had it not been for extensive financing by corporate philanthropies, specifically the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Harriman railroad fortune. They were all in league with some of America's most respected scientists hailing from such prestigious universities as Stamford, Yale, Harvard, and Princeton. These academicians espoused race theory and race science, and then faked and twisted data to serve eugenics' racist aims.Stanford president David Starr Jordan originated the notion of "race and blood" in his 1902 racial epistle "Blood of a Nation," in which the university scholar declared that human qualities and conditions such as talent and poverty were passed through the blood.

In 1904, the Carnegie Institution established a laboratory complex at Cold Spring Harbor on Long Island that stockpiled millions of index cards on ordinary Americans, as researchers carefully plotted the removal of families, bloodlines and whole peoples. From Cold Spring Harbor, eugenics advocates agitated in the legislatures of America, as well as the nation's social service agencies and associations.The Harriman railroad fortune paid local charities, such as the New York Bureau of Industries and Immigration, to seek out Jewish, Italian and other immigrants in New York and other crowded cities and subject them to deportation, trumped up confinement or forced sterilization.

The Rockefeller Foundation helped found the German eugenics program and even funded the program that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz.

Much of the spiritual guidance and political agitation for the American eugenics movement came from California's quasi-autonomous eugenic societies, such as the Pasadena-based Human Betterment Foundation and the California branch of the American Eugenics Society, which coordinated much of their activity with the Eugenics Research Society in Long Island. These organizations--which functioned as part of a closely-knit network--published racist eugenic newsletters and pseudoscientific journals, such as Eugenical News and Eugenics, and propagandized for the Nazis.

Yes, Eugenics is as American as Apple Pie.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You forgot to throw Carl Jung in there.

Not that you're wrong... it's your intentions that are suspect to me. You can't criticize racism against one group and then paint another group with a broad brush. I don't object to your opposition to Islamism. I am opposed to it is well (And I concede that some left-wing types are pretty naive about it). But confusing Islamism with Arabs, or even Muslims is, at best, intellectually lazy.

Akbar (Not a trap.. I promise.)

Al-Andalus (Inspiration for Dorne in ASOIAF, I suspect.)

And you can't really blame religious intolerance in Europe all on Catholicism, either.

 

[Cellmold]

Every time I see a thread like this I am instantly put in mind of Mr Benn.

A proud aryan man who wasn't afraid to travel far and wide, making sure the natives knew how it was done.

 

[Kullervo]

Can somebody give me an example of when I've advocated eugenics to select for "Nordic features"? I have said many times that using genetic technology as a beauty parlour is morally wrong and should be banned by law. Also, while I have what would've been considered Aryan features, I don't look at all Scandinavian. As I showed you all a couple of months ago, things like hair and skin colour are not determinants of race.

Also, of any of the posters here, I am the one who truly champions diversity in the world, and this is because (unlike the rest of you) I think that ethnicities are special and worth preserving. I find it aesthetically pleasing to move from one country to another and see people who look and act differently. This is true diversity. "Diversity" as used by a left-winger is just a codeword for mass immigration and miscegenation, and as seen here, a feeble excuse to oppose combating ancient scourges.

 

[Tiltyred]

I gotta say, I share SilentMusings' frustration at a family that produces 4 defective children in a row. The mind reels. I don't know what the answer is to this lack of good sense, but I wish there were one. Maybe it's not eugenics per se - maybe there is an answer in education, some how - but there is so much opposition lately to people wanting to limit their offspring that I kind of despair of any improvement.

 

[Mole]

Eugenics and Defectives

I share SilentMusings' frustration at a family that produces 4 defective children in a row.

To call a child defective is dehumanisation.

And dehumanisation is the hallmark of American Eugenics.

It is difficult to get rid of human beings so first we must dehumanise them. So we can tell ourselves we are not really getting rid of human beings, only defectives. And dehumanisation is the work of Eugenics.

 

[Mole]

"Diversity" as used by a left-winger is just a codeword for mass immigration and miscegenation, and as seen here, a feeble excuse to oppose combating ancient scourges.

American Eugenics forbad miscegenation.

And indeed American law, informed by Eugenics, forbad miscegenation.

Misegenation is deeply part of the American psyche.

Misegenation is recognised as a deeply ugly word across the world.

 

[Mole]

You forgot to throw Carl Jung in there.

Not that you're wrong... it's your intentions that are suspect to me. You can't criticize racism against one group and then paint another group with a broad brush. I don't object to your opposition to Islamism. I am opposed to it is well (And I concede that some left-wing types are pretty naive about it). But confusing Islamism with Arabs, or even Muslims is, at best, intellectually lazy.

Akbar (Not a trap.. I promise.)

Al-Andalus (Inspiration for Dorne in ASOIAF, I suspect.)

And you can't really blame religious intolerance in Europe all on Catholicism, either.

C'mon, our next door neighbour is the largest muslim country in the world. We supported the largest muslim country in the world in their quest for Independence. And we support the largest muslim country in the world in their successful fledgeling Democracy.

We also support the largest muslim country in the world by training their military, and providing literally billions of dollars for disaster relief.

And of course we take our holidays in the largest muslim country in the world.

And we are pleased to note that your President, Barack Obama, spent his formative years in the largest muslim country in the world.

And of course I refer to Indonesia, our nearest neighbour.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

And of course I refer to Indonesia, our nearest neighbour.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Also, of any of the posters here, I am the one who truly champions diversity in the world, and this is because (unlike the rest of you) I think that ethnicities are special and worth preserving. I find it aesthetically pleasing to move from one country to another and see people who look and act differently. This is true diversity.

Plus, there's the women. Lots of beautiful women, all around the world.

What do you think of this woman?

Not quite my type, but she looks like someone you'd be into. There are better pictures available online, but I thought they might be too racy to post here.

 

[Cellmold]

To call a child defective is dehumanisation.

And dehumanisation is the hallmark of American Eugenics.

It is difficult to get rid of human beings so first we must dehumanise them. So we can tell ourselves we are not really getting rid of human beings, only defectives. And dehumanisation is the work of Eugenics.

Morality is destroyed by necessity for many. What happens in a situation where limiting birth rates becomes necessary to ensure a survival of the species? An expanding and ageing population with ever limited resources can only go on for so long as has been noted rather a lot lately.

It might seem an extreme example to state for the survival of the species, but those are the questions that will become more and more prevalent and relevant over the next 15+ plus years, possibly sooner. At what point does having children go from a right into a privilege?
Some parents are incredibly selfish with this right, producing multitude's of children without consideration of whether they can support them or how it actually effects those around them.

Although whether or not I particularly care about survival of the species I'm not sure.

 

[Mole]

Morality is destroyed by necessity for many. What happens in a situation where limiting birth rates becomes necessary to ensure a survival of the species? An expanding and ageing population with ever limited resources can only go on for so long as has been noted rather a lot lately.

It might seem an extreme example to state for the survival of the species, but those are the questions that will become more and more prevalent and relevant over the next 15+ plus years, possibly sooner. At what point does having children go from a right into a privilege?
Some parents are incredibly selfish with this right, producing multitude's of children without consideration of whether they can support them or how it actually effects those around them.

Although whether or not I particularly care about survival of the species I'm not sure.

Demography is the only social science that makes accurate predictions. And demography tells us that the total world population will stop growing within our lifetime and then it will begin to fall.

So Eugenics is not about population growth. Eugenics is a pseudo science devoted to getting rid of the unter mensch and creating the master race.

It is interesting that so many here speak in favour of the evil pseudo science of Eugenics.

But it is all of a piece: the pseudo science of Eugenics and the pseudo science of mbti.

 

[Riva]

[MENTION=9627]RobertCalifornia[/MENTION] lolz

I am against it. The potential one has isn't always determined by genetics.

About disabled children... i am truly undecided. But if the parents are fine regardless of how many disabled children they have enforcing birth control on them is something that goes against my first comment above.

 

[Kullervo]

Plus, there's the women. Lots of beautiful women, all around the world.

What do you think of this woman?

Not quite my type, but she looks like someone you'd be into. There are better pictures available online, but I thought they might be too racy to post here.

Firstly, I sense what you are trying to do, and won't take the bait.

However if you must know, that model is not quite my type either actually. I know this sounds very fussy, but distinct jaws and cheekbones are quite a masculine feature and I find them unattractive on women. The most important thing to me in attraction is facial features/proportions that I can relate to. Craniometry, not hair or eye colour. I am still looking for examples of models I find attractive on the net. I am dead serious when I say that I find "ordinary" girls more attractive.

What this has to do with my thread is questionable however. You just wanted an excuse to post the pictures.

 

[Bush]

Misegenation is recognised as a deeply ugly word across the world.

Yeah. Partly because of word choice, that whole paragraph read to me like the OP wasn't keen on allowing people of different raves to bone and that racial diversity ought to be forced. Latter would be a baffling and rather shitty use of eugenics.

 

[Nicodemus]

I gotta say, I share SilentMusings' frustration at a family that produces 4 defective children in a row. The mind reels. I don't know what the answer is to this lack of good sense, but I wish there were one. Maybe it's not eugenics per se - maybe there is an answer in education, some how - but there is so much opposition lately to people wanting to limit their offspring that I kind of despair of any improvement.

Where there is freedom, there will be bad choices. Where we want to avert them, we must limit freedom.