The Conundrum of Jerry Falwell

[Totenkindly]

I saw this article a few minutes ago about Jerry Falwell. I found it interesting, simply because it tried to go a little deeper than simply pick a side.

What was probably the most revealing were the positive comments by Larry Flynt, he of the notorious Penthouse / sexual-freedom persuasion.

Does this article change anyone's perspective on the man or not, or encourage one to find out more about him, and why / why not?

 

[rivercrow]

No.

I've lived in the Bible-thumping conservative South too long to care or be interested.

I live in the same town as the new Billy Graham facility. I'm less than 30 miles away from the old site of Jim & Tammy Faye Baker's Praise The Lord ministry. Although most of my gay friends worked there, I've encountered enough bigotry and unChristlike sentiment from evangelicals to want to know anything more about the people at the top of the organizations.

I did read the articles. I realize I'm probably being close-minded--and uncharacteristically judgmental myself--but that's the way it is.

 

[ptgatsby]

Does this article change anyone's perspective on the man or not, or encourage one to find out more about him, and why / why not?

Nope, I judge him by his message and by who he was. The only thing I can say about him is that he was at least able to support equal rights. This is, however, dwarfed by my total lack of respect for his overall message. Who he was is also who he played. He chose his message, and he chose to carry it for a long time.

I haven't forgotten that he blamed just about everything non-religious for 9/11. The irony was astounding to me.

The Larry Flynt bit flashes back to something I said a long while back...I admire physical strength in others... but that's about strength. It just makes them beating their wife that much worse. A characteristic does not make someone noble, nor does someone else supporting, liking or tolerating the messenger make the messenger any better.

 

[sundowning]

I'm inclined to think everyone has their good side. Why not? But when you actively present a public image, that's how you are going to be judged (and I think others are justified in that).

It's quite possible Mother Theresa wasn't a morning person and grumped around for an hour or so, but that's pretty irrelevent to Mother Theresa the image and how millions respond(ed) to her.

 

[Crabapple]

I'm surprised by the article; I suppose he was more complex than he seemed to be. Nonetheless, his anti-gay stance was poisonous to me, and I think the conservative christian promoters of hatred don't care about nuances.

The Moral Majority is/was very destructive to individual rights, and as far as I am concerned, made hatred in vogue. One who believed as they did wasn't anti-gay, anti-choice, and anti woman- they were obeying god's law. Or some such cr*p.

 

[Brendan]

Does this article change anyone's perspective on the man or not, or encourage one to find out more about him, and why / why not?

The man made himself a message. In essence, he whored himself. I couldn't stand his message, I couldn't stand him.

There are two politicians who I'm going to describe, and I want you to guess who they were.

The first was a model citizen. He remained faithful to his wife. He never drank or smoked and was very kind and polite in person.

The other drank and smoked regularly and had several mistresses.

Dime to the one who can tell me who they were.

 

[Zergling]

I don't know much about Falwell in particular, but the strong religious right has a lot of views that I completely disagree with, and in a lot of ways seems a very damaging part of the country.

As for Falwell individually, I'm sure his good side was as much as anyone's.

The man made himself a message. In essence, he whored himself. I couldn't stand his message, I couldn't stand him.

There are two politicians who I'm going to describe, and I want you to guess who they were.

The first was a model citizen. He remained faithful to his wife. He never drank or smoked and was very kind and polite in person.

The other drank and smoked regularly and had several mistresses.

Dime to the one who can tell me who they were.

Calvin Coolidge and Warren G. Harding.

(I've heard something like this before, and it's the sort of argument that I really, really hate for arguing a sort of political point.)

 

[rivercrow]

Naw, Hitler and FDR.

Been there, seen it, bought the fish. NEXT!

 

[C.J.Woolf]

Jerry Falwell rendered unto Caesar what is God's, as it were.

 

[Zergling]

Naw, Hitler and FDR.

Been there, seen it, bought the fish. NEXT!

I knew who they were, just figured I'd use a different answer to undercut the example, since i really, really don't like arguments involving Hitler comparisons that get thrown out all the time.

 

[Brendan]

(I've heard something like this before, and it's the sort of argument that I really, really hate for arguing a sort of political point.)

The point I was making was that when you whore your image to promote a political agenda, you don't deserve the courtesy (and it is a courtesy) of people looking beyond that to try and look at your personal qualities.

 

[Brendan]

I knew who they were, just figured I'd use a different answer to undercut the example, since i really, really don't like arguments involving Hitler comparisons that get thrown out all the time.

Wether or not a comparison is overused has nothing to do with its validity. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the following conversation on the show House, but it's still valid:

House: The symptoms tell us something. What does 2+2 equal?

Foreman: Well we've ruled out this disease.

House: Great. So 2+2 does not equal 97.

Foreman: But it can't possibly be that disease or the other one either.

House: So 2+2 doesn't equal 12 or 45 either. I'll go tell the family we've made a major breakthrough.

 

[Crabapple]

The point I was making was that when you whore your image to promote a political agenda, you don't deserve the courtesy (and it is a courtesy) of people looking beyond that to try and look at your personal qualities.

Brendan, huh??? I'm not getting your point. Or I'm confused by your vehemence.

Hitler also liked dogs. And he was polite in public; it was only in private that he sat back and cackled while he hung people with piano wire. I would, however, say that a lust for slaughter is a personal quality, whether carried out as public policy or in the privacy of one's home.

While Falwell (and Hitler) may have had some good human qualities, what they did was ultimately destructive. I don't think you are disagreeing with that, right?

What exactly are you disagreeing with, other than the aptness or tastefulness or overuse of Hitler as an example?

(Pssst... I think 2+2=97 in a short time if you have hamsters)

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't think that Brendan was disagreeing; rather, someone else was disagreeing with Brendan's use of Hitler as an example as a little too extreme.

But the part of Brendan's post(s) you quoted is the part I understand:

Falwell portrayed himself in extreme and harsh terms publicly in order to get his political agenda implemented (he "whored" his image), so even if he was a better human being in private, no one is obliged to consider him in that private light and is totally justified to view him as he wanted to publicly portray himself.

That is the cost of potentially misrepresenting yourself in the name of your agenda.

 

[Brendan]

Brendan, huh??? I'm not getting your point. Or I'm confused by your vehemence.

Hitler also liked dogs. And he was polite in public; it was only in private that he sat back and cackled while he hung people with piano wire. I would, however, say that a lust for slaughter is a personal quality, whether carried out as public policy or in the privacy of one's home.

While Falwell (and Hitler) may have had some good human qualities, what they did was ultimately destructive. I don't think you are disagreeing with that, right?

What exactly are you disagreeing with, other than the aptness or tastefulness or overuse of Hitler as an example?

(Pssst... I think 2+2=97 in a short time if you have hamsters)

Yeah. I meant what Jennifer said.

P.S.- ROFL at the hamster allusion.

I don't think that Brendan was disagreeing; rather, someone else was disagreeing with Brendan's use of Hitler as an example as a little too extreme.

But the part of Brendan's post(s) you quoted is the part I understand:

Falwell portrayed himself in extreme and harsh terms publicly in order to get his political agenda implemented (he "whored" his image), so even if he was a better human being in private, no one is obliged to consider him in that private light and is totally justified to view him as he wanted to publicly portray himself.

That is the cost of potentially misrepresenting yourself in the name of your agenda.

 

[Zergling]

Wether or not a comparison is overused has nothing to do with its validity. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the following conversation on the show House, but it's still valid:

Using a comparison to Hitler is an overused method of trying to make a point, and relies a lot on the "I hate hitler" emotions. The point is a good one, but a better method could easily have been used ot argue it.

 

[The Ü™]

People are brainwashed by the media to hate Hitler.

For some reason, no one can get past the whole genocide thing. And to me, that makes people quite shallow.

 

[Crabapple]

Totally

People are brainwashed by the media to hate Hitler.

For some reason, no one can get past the whole genocide thing. And to me, that makes people quite shallow.

Holy Moley! LOL!:yim_rolling_on_the_

Um... Are you serious???? I think I must , cuz I checked out your MySpace. You are serious, aren't you? Well........

No disrespect, but admiring Hitler won't win you Brownie points with most people.

 

[Totenkindly]

... admiring Hitler won't win you Brownie points with most people.

Hitler makes me happy... because he's dead.

 

[The Ü™]

Totally




Holy Moley! LOL!:yim_rolling_on_the_

Um... Are you serious???? I think I must , cuz I checked out your MySpace. You are serious, aren't you? Well........

No disrespect, but admiring Hitler won't win you Brownie points with most people.

I actually neither support nor condemn it. But if something doesn't involve me, I don't see any reason why I should care.