I wonder if being smart can sometimes hurts you in the real world

[prplchknz]

I wonder this because I meet people who are extremely stupid like they don't get simple concepts, they just go along blindly with society yet they're able to get jobs and hold them. yet I'm sitting here going, how you don't know that an exclamation point is a punctuation mark, and someone explaining it to you five times and you're still not getting it, how are you making it in life? is it because they don't question society. and so they don't know society's answers so that can't be like that makes no sense, I'm not doing that. because they're all like hmm someone told me this, it must be true! so is being successful at jobs have more to do with how well you follow directions and not questioning how the company runs things? so basically to be succesful in life you have to be dumb and not question things?

so basically the government wants us to bend to their will and not rebel. the media puts shit out there and spins things on how they want society to think and i think they're probably working with the government so it's a way to control us. so we need to question everything, because if we don't things might go worst

 

[WALMART]

not explicitly in itself, no

 

[cafe]

Past a certain point, being smart isn't materially helpful from what I've seen. Or maybe it depends on the type of intelligence. If you're good at certain kinds of social strategy, then it could be helpful.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

All the smarts in the world can't help you if you don't know how to deal with people.

 

[prplchknz]

All the smarts in the world can't help you if you don't know how to deal with people.

so success is measured by social skills? and not intelligence/how well you can actually do the job?

 

[cafe]

If you are an absolute rock star at what you do and what you do is in high demand, you can sometimes get by on intelligence and competence alone. But it leaves you vulnerable.

 

[prplchknz]

I want to think I can get better socially, but i've been trying for years and so much of it still doesn't make sense and I often say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

 

[The Iron Giant]

I think being smart makes you better off. Critical thinking skills can help you most of all. You get to view politicians with the understanding that their message is being condensed into sound bytes for the public while they juggle policy between the loudest and wealthiest special interests groups in an effort to stay in office long enough to promote other policy they actually believe in. You get to view the news media as a cutthroat business with very low profits that can't afford real reporters anymore and instead relies on regurgitating official statements (press releases) and either obsesses over the appearance of neutrality (so provides no analysis of these statements) or goes far over the deep end into partisanship despite being fully aware that they're reporting lies. You get to view the advertising media as a soulless machine that will stop at nothing to sell a product and knows full well that the best way to sell a product to people is by convincing them that they are broken without it. You get to know that religion is the means by which those who want your resources stir pathos in an effort to get you to give those resources to them.

Knowing all this, in my opinion, is much more helpful than it is hurtful.

 

[WhoCares]

From what I have seen of the corporate world (a great deal) it kind of goes like this.

Cogs in the machine - you arent really hired for your competency since the competency set for most jobs is quite low. You are hired because you are a team player...aka, you will fit in, sit at a desk and allow the existing machine to run as per the status quo. In return you will receive a salary for shuffling papers and attemding meetings in which you concur with whatever opinion your boss is holding. Of you are good at this and people like you, you will receive periodic promotions and given little projects to make you feel important. But that has a ceiling, its limited to those positions not requiring great skill.

Executives - there is a competency level required here as you will be responsible for meeting targets. But you will never get to this level by being a loose canon, you still have to know how to play the political game (and there always is one). As an executive not only do you need to be successful at creating outcomes but you also have to be successful at holding the right balance of power in the environment and having the right support.

Thats just how it is. Its relatively easy to be a cog in the machine and make a decent living and this requires the least level of people skills too. You dont need high level manipulation and charisma to operate at this level, just basic Fe so no-one actively hates you. Without that though, you really are screwed no matter what you do.

I struggle because while I have basic Fe that allows me to be a cog in the machine I find it difficult not to get frustrated about the kind of things you are seeing. It requires me to constantly 'not look' at certain aspects so I can be less bothered by them. Ultimately I want to freelance and create my own job, so the 'not looking' part isnt such an effort and a drain on me. Its taken me 5yrs just to get to the point of acceptance where I am no longer railing and wanting to get revolutionary on people's arses and stop trying to change things for the better. That by the way, if you are not highly charismatic and skilled at managing your superiors, is a surefire way to get managed out of a job.

 

[entpersonal]

If you are an absolute rock star at what you do and what you do is in high demand, you can sometimes get by on intelligence and competence alone. But it leaves you vulnerable.

My dad used to bandy this about in his old workplace - you need to be competent or well-liked to keep your job.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

^ it's even better to be both.

 

[entpersonal]

^ it's even better to be both.

Of course. I would prefer also to be liked. If you're neither you're pretty fucked though. Just some bumbling idiot without connections.

 

[Tiltyred]

Basic competency and high people skills will get you further than brilliant competency and low people skills. People skills are the most important thing. Your work just needs to be adequate.

 

[cafe]

I want to think I can get better socially, but i've been trying for years and so much of it still doesn't make sense and I often say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

I *think* if you can practice enough to get through an interview and do basic small talk it might be okay. At a lot of jobs, beyond not annoying managers and customers, you don't need a ton of social skills. If you always show up a little early, you call in ASAP when you can't be there but you're there, like, 99.8 percent of the time, you are willing to have your schedule messed around and come in on short notice it might be enough. Mostly managers want to not have to think about you at all. Showing up dependably is huge. Competence and conscientiousness seems to be somewhat less a big deal as long as you don't do anything that directly and obviously costs them money, like screw up hugely on register.

If you can get access to a mentor or coach who helps people get though interviews and find a thing for autistics/aspies that offers advice on small talk and have someone role-play it with you until it gets fairly comfortable it might be okay. Then just try to stick to that stuff as much as possible.

I'm not great with a lot of that stuff myself, tbh, and sometimes say things that make people look at me like I've got five heads. But I do okay if I stick to the weather, etc.

Edit: You could pretend to be undercover. You're trying to infiltrate a group of cows who have disguised themselves as humans. They can only understand simple, concrete concepts and you must not let them know you can do any more than that or you will be discovered as an impostor.

 

[entpersonal]

Basic competency and high people skills will get you further than brilliant competency and low people skills. People skills are the most important thing. Your work just needs to be adequate.

It depends on the profession - for professional tennis, say, competency trumps EQ.

 

[Tiltyred]

True. I guess I don't think of sports as a profession.

 

[prplchknz]

Edit: You could pretend to be undercover. You're trying to infiltrate a group of cows who have disguised themselves as humans. They can only understand simple, concrete concepts and you must not let them know you can do any more than that or you will be discovered as an impostor.

I think I might try this

follow up question: why is the world like this? wouldn't it be better to ignore the people and do your job?

 

[Typh0n]

It depends on the profession - for professional tennis, say, competency trumps EQ.

I think its true for everything "just being adequate" will never get anyone promoted.

 

[Coriolis]

True. I guess I don't think of sports as a profession.

Well, science and engineering are professions, and you don't get very far in them without competency commensurate with the type of project you are working on. Yes, there is a certain amount of OJT required in every position, but again, you have to be fairly quick to keep up with the learning curve so you can start being productive. OTOH, most people don't expect scientists and engineers to be Miss Congeniality. We get the job done and are generally polite, unassuming, and helpful. That tends to be enough.

 

[prplchknz]

Well, science and engineering are professions, and you don't get very far in them without competency commensurate with the type of project you are working on. Yes, there is a certain amount of OJT required in every position, but again, you have to be fairly quick to keep up with the learning curve so you can start being productive. OTOH, most people don't expect scientists and engineers to be Miss Congeniality. We get the job done and are generally polite, unassuming, and helpful. That tends to be enough.

I know the rules of politeness if it's in a structure that I have experience with like I can do yes mam no mam yes sir no sir please and thank you. I have that down, and I don't really care enough about others to be assuming, and my mom has me trained to be helpful. where I run into problems is when I have to interact with some on the same level as the playing field as me or be nice to someone I don't know, I think I'm nice but 7 out of 10 times the other person gets offended. if I'm just shooting the breeze, I don't understand those rules. and because I have a literal mind and often miss subleties I don't always know when I'm suppose to laugh, why I can't directly ask someone their opinion of me, or I forget that people might view the world differently (this last one I don't get either, because I am not all the unique). or I say things that I think are fine, or do things that I think are fine to find out later that they really aren't. All i need is a better brain, and I'll have a chance in life.

when I was 24 someone finally told me that it's polite to say good morning. even if you don't feel like, and she was like had you noticed I stopped saying it to you, I wanted to see if you would do it first. And no I hadn't noticed. So now I say morning, because morning is never good so I'm not going to lie and say it is.

so the thing is even though I do stuff without meaning to piss someone else off, I'm lucky to have friends who know me that I can be like this person is mad at me, this is what happened right before. and they can be like this is why and then I know not to do that again.

Once someone knows me, they know I don't always do well socially and know I'm open to learning and if you explain to me why what I did wasn't ok and have a conversation and make sure I actually understand. Now not all my friends are like this but one is. Let me ask questions about why I shouldn't do x and why I should try y instead. she also knows that sometimes she has to be "hey, so and so is mad at you, what did you do?" and I'm usually like "they're mad at me? I have no clue" then I feel bad and legit have no clue what I did.