[Type 2] Hello? Am I alone in here?

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

My 4 friend dislikes being a 4. She says it feels like a "useless type." Which, we try to assure her it is not.

Can you elaborate on how you assure her of this??

I WILL I WILL I WILL!!!

YAY!!!

 

[Showbread]

Can you elaborate on how you assure her of this??

We just tell her that all the types are equal, and we need all types of people. Which, I suppose sounds pretty lame. She just doesn't have a whole lot of self-confidence to begin with. Any suggestions??

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

We just tell her that all the types are equal, and we need all types of people. Which, I suppose sounds pretty lame. She just doesn't have a whole lot of self-confidence to begin with. Any suggestions??

Yeah, that doesn't help someone who's convinced that they are irrelevant to the world and who undervalues their inherent qualities anyway.

I don't really have any useful suggestions at the time, actually. That's why I asked you! To me, the type doesn't seem terribly good at being involved with others except in a highly tortured manner, and whose strengths revolve around being really ingrown. I gather that the most we can do to overcome that is paint really pretty pictures or something. (I am only speaking from personal experience. This may not apply to all 4s).

I mean rationally speaking, it's obvious that everyone has value. Sure, we need all types of people, but philosophically speaking, how does that translate? How do 4s best use their innate qualities to benefit the world? I'll let you know when I come to my final conclusions!

EDIT: Not to be overly down on 4s. I'm just raising the point.

 

[thoughtlost]

We just tell her that all the types are equal, and we need all types of people. Which, I suppose sounds pretty lame. She just doesn't have a whole lot of self-confidence to begin with. Any suggestions??

Although I am not a four, I feel that I can offer not so usefull input since I can relate to your friend: No matter what you tell her, unless she truly sees the value in herself, no amount or kind of external input will make her feel like she is "worthy" human being. ...I bet that even if she gets all As on every exam, volunteers at a church or is even a pleasant person (in other people's eyes) it will still be very hard for her to see the value in her being.

It kind of sounds counter-intuitive, but I found it helpful to be left alone when I was at my worst. People providing input and trying to make me feel better will only make it worse. As you already know, it's an intrapersonal ordeal ...so I don't know if there's really anything anyone can really do... Just be understanding (and emotionally distant) about what's going on.

this is just my experience.

 

[Haven]

Although I am not a four, I feel that I can offer not so usefull input since I can relate to your friend: No matter what you tell her, unless she truly sees the value in herself, no amount or kind of external input will make her feel like she is "worthy" human being. ...I bet that even if she gets all As on every exam, volunteers at a church or is even a pleasant person (in other people's eyes) it will still be very hard for her to see the value in her being.

It kind of sounds counter-intuitive, but I found it helpful to be left alone when I was at my worst. People providing input and trying to make me feel better will only make it worse. As you already know, it's an intrapersonal ordeal ...so I don't know if there's really anything anyone can really do... Just be understanding (and emotionally distant) about what's going on.

this is just my experience.

Found another 2!

 

[thoughtlost]

Found another 2!

lol, can I ask why? I've typed myself as a 6w7...

 

[Haven]

it was just a hunch from that one post, I wasn't making an informed assessment or anything

 

[Showbread]

it was just a hunch from that one post, I wasn't making an informed assessment or anything

And an optimistic one. Not that we don't love 6s. Haven, are we the only active 2s currently?

 

[Haven]

define "active" and "currently"

There's Giggly and Thursday

2 is not a common type, 6s and 9s are much more so

 

[brainheart]

Are there any other 2s in the forum? I feel like I'm drowning in 4s! Which, is not a bad thing. I quite like 4s... Why are there so few 2s about??

I don't think there are that many fours on here, honestly. But to answer your question, fours tend to be some majorly self absorbed mofos so we dig the personality theories. Lots of navel gazing involved. Meanwhile, twos tend to avoid it when it would benefit them (integrate to four).

 

[Animal]

Are there any other 2s in the forum? I feel like I'm drowning in 4s! Which, is not a bad thing. I quite like 4s... Why are there so few 2s about??

Lots of mistyped 4's.

My thoughts exactly.

Mistyped 4s, 9s, 7s, and male 8s. That's why.

If I could choose my own enneagram type I would choose 2w3. Hands down my ideal type. Intellectually I know that no neurosis is better than another and it all depends on the indivdual blah blah, but one of the times I've pushed myself hardest, to grow out of my own weakness, was because a 2 inspired the hell out of me. And I find myself gravitating to that type/archetype in general, as it seems to have qualities that help me improve. This made more sense when I was mistyped at 8, because it looked like my growth point, but now knowing that it's my disintegration point that's a bit worrisome but there you have it. I don't know where the bad stigma comes from for type 2 that makes people avoid the typing. It might have to do with myths like "2s are just out to give" which overlook the powerful and power-hungry nature of the type.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Are a lot of 2's SJ's?

They may just be less interested in stuff like typology. SJ's assimilate the most easily, and probably have less a need to understand their self.

 

[Showbread]

Are a lot of 2's SJ's?

They may just be less interested in stuff like typology. SJ's assimilate the most easily, and probably have less a need to understand their self.

I was under the impression that 2s were generally EFs... And I don't know about that in regards to SJs... I find it very difficult to assimilate in a lot of situations and I'm constantly trying to understand myself better.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I was under the impression that 2s were generally EFs... And I don't know about that in regards to SJs... I find it very difficult to assimilate in a lot of situations and I'm constantly trying to understand myself better.

IDK if I'd put you in the ESFJ category based off that one thought.

I suppose type 2's just seem like xSFJ's in my mind. An ENFJ I know is a type 2 as well. And my ISFP mom is a type 2.

 

[Showbread]

IDK if I'd put you in the ESFJ category based off that one thought.

It's been something I've debated quite a bit. Perhaps you would offer your insight here:http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-mbti-type/65535-s-n.html

 

[HongDou]

IDK if I'd put you in the ESFJ category based off that one thought.

It's been something I've debated quite a bit. Perhaps you would offer your insight here:http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-mbti-type/65535-s-n.html

I think ESJs (or SJs in general) can be pretty introspective. [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] comes to mind.

Mistyped 4s, 9s, 7s, and male 8s. That's why.

I get 4s and 7s. But I never see any 9s or 8s on here, so are there really that many mistyped ones? Dunno, perhaps the availability heuristic is fucking with me.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I think ESJs (or SJs in general) can be pretty introspective. [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] comes to mind.

I suppose that could be true. I've just not met many ESFJ's that were very introspective. Maybe it just doesn't show.

Not necessarily the case for ESTJ's and ISxJ's that I know.

 

[Animal]

I get 4s and 7s. But I never see any 9s or 8s on here, so are there really that many mistyped ones? Dunno, perhaps the availability heuristic is fucking with me.

I've spent much more time on PerC than here, and that seems to be the case there at least?

Male 2s mistype at 8 because of the knight in shining armor complex and that male 2s tend to be very masculine, heroic and "I have no needs" and they feel like 8s because they're tough and strong and vengeful, but realistically heart-driven hot-blooded 2 vengeance is different than cold-blooded 8 vengeance. If a 2 male feels like he has a soft spot for women but he's a tough warrior, he might type at 8 because of his 'feeling like a warrior.' He mght mistype at 8 because he doesn't relate to the lovey dovey softie bullshit that is often in bad 2 descriptions. No real 2 would.

2s might mistype at 9 thinking they give in to the needs of others. Realistically they are power types giving the other person what they want so that the 2 will have power over them. But they might not see that in themselves, and just look at the behavior of 'giving in.' 9w8s can do this for power to a degree, but it's less power-driven and goal-oriented and more "loss of sense of self" oriented. Less pride, more sloth, to put it simply.

But both mistypes are possible because of the commonality of 'giving in to the needs of the other' of 2 and 9, and the common prideful heroic badassery of 2 and 8. I've seen female 2s (in my humble opinion) mistype at 8 as well, because they think 2 is weak when realistically it is anything but.

2 pride is, "I will make that person my slave. He will be eating out of my hand."

 

[HongDou]

I've spent much more time on PerC than here, and that seems to be the case there at least?

Male 2s mistype at 8 because of the knight in shining armor complex and that male 2s tend to be very masculine, heroic and "I have no needs" and they feel like 8s because they're tough and strong and vengeful, but realistically heart-driven hot-blooded 2 vengeance is different than cold-blooded 8 vengeance. If a 2 male feels like he has a soft spot for women but he's a tough warrior, he might type at 8 because of his 'feeling like a warrior.' He mght mistype at 8 because he doesn't relate to the lovey dovey softie bullshit that is often in bad 2 descriptions. No real 2 would.

2s might mistype at 9 thinking they give in to the needs of others. Realistically they are power types giving the other person what they want so that the 2 will have power over them. But they might not see that in themselves, and just look at the behavior of 'giving in.' 9w8s can do this for power to a degree, but it's less power-driven and goal-oriented and more "loss of sense of self" oriented. Less pride, more sloth, to put it simply.

But both mistypes are possible because of the commonality of 'giving in to the needs of the other' of 2 and 9, and the common prideful heroic badassery of 2 and 8. I've seen female 2s (in my humble opinion) mistype at 8 as well, because they think 2 is weak when realistically it is anything but.

Ahh, I see. Makes sense.

2 pride is, "I will make that person my slave. He will be eating out of my hand."

Hmm, is it always so extreme? I've been debating between 7w6 and 2w3 for a while now and while I do relate to the emotional and love-oriented side of 2, I don't really want that power over people at all. I mean, I do want a relationship with someone where we both feel like we can't live without each other but the idea of other people being dependent on me being loving and helpful freaks me out. It puts too much responsibility in my hands. But I'm also more concerned with trying to tie myself down and having a happy, committed relationship than trying to maintain my freedom for as long as possible. Do you know why some 2s on PerC would mistype as 7 or vice versa?

 

[Haven]

Ahh, I see. Makes sense.



Hmm, is it always so extreme? I've been debating between 7w6 and 2w3 for a while now and while I do relate to the emotional and love-oriented side of 2, I don't really want that power over people at all. I mean, I do want a relationship with someone where we both feel like we can't live without each other but the idea of other people being dependent on me being loving and helpful freaks me out. It puts too much responsibility in my hands. But I'm also more concerned with trying to tie myself down and having a happy, committed relationship than trying to maintain my freedom for as long as possible. Do you know why some 2s on PerC would mistype as 7 or vice versa?

It's definitely not always that extreme, the 9 fix tones down the dominant side that's so often mentioned about 2s.