[INTJ] INTJs - Do you think by way of images more than words?

[highlander]

"It is often said that human beings rely more heavily on vision than any of our other senses. This seems particularly true of INJs, who often report a strong visual element associated with their Ni. Many INTJs report thinking by way of images more than words. Their intuitions may emerge in the form of symbols, images, dreams, or patterns. This is consistent with Jung’s characterization of the Ni type as the dreamer or seer. There is a distinct visual character to these notions, which is why vision-related terms—foresight, insight, seer, visionary, etc.—are invariably used in describing INJs. The visual nature of Ni might also tie into their inferior function, Extraverted Sensing (Se), which is also a visual function. The difference is that Se is attuned to the specifics and details of the environment, whereas Ni is more concerned with forming an impression or theory of what is happening based on the totality of incoming sensory information."


http://personalityjunkie.com/the-intj/2/

Does this resonate with you? Do you think more of images vs. words?

 

[Coriolis]

I think - meaning I get ideas - more as images than as words, but also as impressions. This is hard to describe. If I try to "look" directly at one of these impressions, it tends to elude me, slipping away like a stream of smoke. I have to let it go, and wait for it to come back in more solid and permanent form. When it is willing to stay still, then I can start to sense a visual impression. Sometimes I get auditory impressions as well, and I have a very good memory for music and other sounds. Words are the medium I generally use to express all this to the outside world.

 

[Nicodemus]

I think in fogs that are neither images nor words, fogs of weighed information that is more sensed than directly looked at.

If I had to choose, however, I would say I am a little closer to thinking in words than to the kind of the visual thinking associated with autism, which is basically a personal, endless, dynamic series of clear images, a self-produced movie in one's head. I have trouble conjuring up a single clear image of anything; it is always rather the impression of an image than an actual image.

I think - meaning I get ideas - more as images than as words, but also as impressions. This is hard to describe. If I try to "look" directly at one of these impressions, it tends to elude me, slipping away like a stream of smoke. I have to let it go, and wait for it to come back in more solid and permanent form. When it is willing to stay still, then I can start to sense a visual impression. Sometimes I get auditory impressions as well, and I have a very good memory for music and other sounds. Words are the medium I generally use to express all this to the outside world.

I only read your post after submitting mine. Interesting parallels, even in the vocabulary.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered, I'd like to enter a Ti dom perspective. I will abstain from mucking with the poll though, but the topic is too interesting for me to resist.


I think in words. It takes effort for me to think in images or impressions. Sometimes I do seem to have impressions or vibrations going on but, if they are always present, they seem to be papered over with words most of the time. I very much have an inner voice, and I kind of assumed everyone did. A lot of times, it is as though this inner voice drowns everything else out, even the physical sensations of my body. This is the case more often than not. This is what's going on internally when I appear "lost in my head."

 

[highlander]

I think in fogs that are neither images nor words, fogs of weighed information that is more sensed than directly looked at.

If I had to choose, however, I would say I am a little closer to thinking in words than to the kind of the visual thinking associated with autism, which is basically a personal, endless, dynamic series of clear images, a self-produced movie in one's head. I have trouble conjuring up a single clear image of anything; it is always rather the impression of an image than an actual image.

That's a very good way of putting it. I was thinking the word "haze". I do the same thing.

I have heard people say they think in symbols or visual things that can't be described and then they have to put it into words. It's not like that for me.

 

[Lily Bart]

Not even images--my snobby side considers them ideas in the purest sense of the word, but my more humble self just has seemingly irrelevant things flit through my mind at the speed of light. I would characterize it as more of a brain-centered emotional/physical twinge. If I manage to focus on the twinge then more seemingly irrelevant twinges appear (irrelevant to the first twinge) or often intense feelings appear, unconnected to whatever is going on in the world outside. If I am able to focus on the twinges in a relaxed way then sometimes a useful pattern can emerge but more often they appear significant but stay odd and unrelated. Over time, I've learned to trust these twinges because they often will end up being very significant long term -- even over a matter of years. I think I actually have an archive of twinges in my brain that I revisit every now and again to try to pattern into something. When I was younger I remember getting what I thought were stupid ideas because everyone else believed otherwise and putting myself down for being stupid, but often my perspective would turn out to be correct long-term to the point that I would become fairly rigid about tuning into my own ideas and tuning out the rest of the world. Of course, this isn't good either, so now I try to get a good balance.

 

[WhoCares]

I run movies in my head but like to cement them by then expressing in words either by journal or conversation. But more or less my thoughts are visual. I find it extremely easy to form visuals in great detail on any topic and new ideas come to me as images rather than as word based thought streams.

 

[FireShield98]

Yes, especially when coming up with ideas (particularly story ideas).

 

[Sunny Ghost]

That's a very good way of putting it. I was thinking the word "haze". I do the same thing.

I have heard people say they think in symbols or visual things that can't be described and then they have to put it into words. It's not like that for me.

I'm not INTJ... but I wanted to chime in. Looked like an interesting thread.

I've always felt as though this is why ISFP's have great difficulty speaking. Our internal world is experienced through feeling tones Fi coupled with Ni. I would go so far as to say that I don't naturally think in words. Or at least, I didn't for a very long time. I was really sick and tired of feeling like I had a disconnection between my brain and my mouth, so I took up journaling and made it a regular practice to write. I don't feel this disconnect anymore and think greatly more in words now than I used to. I do still struggle on greater ideas, because the ideas are often so colored in feeling tones and images gathered through Se, that only really my Ni understands, and there just isn't a cohesive way to put it down into understandable terms.

 

[Ene]

I would like to also add something as I have a strong Ni and maybe it will be of some use in the course of this conversation.

I want to add something from my earliest memories because I can't help but wondered, have wondered all my life, if it has shaped the way I think. I know wonder if it was Ni in its purest form as such an early age.

My earliest memories are from the time period between 15 to 17 months old and I remember images, impressions, understandings. When I was about 17 months old, I have one vivid memory of my mother and grandmother standing beside a bed. My mother was changing my newborn sister's diaper and she and my grandma were talking. I still recall seeing them, seeing my sister on the bed and seeing my hands on the bars of my crib. My hands are all I recall seeing of myself. I recall hearing speech but not fully understanding the words and then I looked out the window directly behind my grandmother and saw a "creature" looking in the window. It seemed perfectly normal to me that some kind of creature should look in the window, but I had no idea what it was because I was a baby and had no frame of reference. So, to this day, all I can tell you was that it was a creature. It might have been a bird or an owl or a cat or who knows what. Of course, I had no word for it then, not even creature, but I understood that it was a living thing and that it was observing my family from behind the window just as I was observing from behind those crib bars.

When I think, I think in the haze that someone described. Sometimes I can't tell precisely "what" I'm thinking because it hasn't come together yet. I space out and if someone asks me what I was thinking or where my mind was, I honestly can't tell them, but once the idea comes together, I have a complete picture that blows both my mind and their minds. However, if I'm interrupted before this "thing" can find words, then I may loose the brilliance it is sure to produce.

I hope that doesn't make me sound totally crazy but that IS how I think much of the time.

 

[highlander]

My earliest memories are from the time period between 15 to 17 months old and I remember images, impressions, understandings. When I was about 17 months old, I have one vivid memory of my mother and grandmother standing beside a bed. My mother was changing my newborn sister's diaper and she and my grandma were talking. I still recall seeing them, seeing my sister on the bed and seeing my hands on the bars of my crib. My hands are all I recall seeing of myself. I recall hearing speech but not fully understanding the words and then I looked out the window directly behind my grandmother and saw a "creature" looking in the window. It seemed perfectly normal to me that some kind of creature should look in the window, but I had no idea what it was because I was a baby and had no frame of reference. So, to this day, all I can tell you was that it was a creature. It might have been a bird or an owl or a cat or who knows what. Of course, I had no word for it then, not even creature, but I understood that it was a living thing and that it was observing my family from behind the window just as I was observing from behind those crib bars.

I don't know if it's Ni but that's an amazing story - mostly because of the detail with which you remember it. How do you know you were 15 - 17 months old? I recall my grandfather once sitting in a rocking chair and he died when I was 3 so I could have been 2 or 3 but that's as far as I go back.

When I think, I think in the haze that someone described. Sometimes I can't tell precisely "what" I'm thinking because it hasn't come together yet. I space out and if someone asks me what I was thinking or where my mind was, I honestly can't tell them, but once the idea comes together, I have a complete picture that blows both my mind and their minds. However, if I'm interrupted before this "thing" can find words, then I may loose the brilliance it is sure to produce.

I hope that doesn't make me sound totally crazy but that IS how I think much of the time.

That's sort of how it works for me too. Then when I'm verbalizing things, it is sometimes in a halting sort of way. There is a point or a few points in my head that I have a strong need to communicate but they're vague. Sometimes I'm successful in communicating them and sometimes I'm not because the words just don't come to shape these vague impressions into a thing that is meaningful that another person can understand. People who know me have grown to be patient to listen without interrupting because they realize when I'm in that halting speech mode that I'm usually going to say something insightful. Those who don't know me well tend jump in at the pauses and I can lose the train of thought. It can be frustrating because it seems like the thoughts fly out of my head never to return. That's probably not accurate but it feels like it at the time.

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION], thank you for saying it's interesting and NOT saying I was a lunatic. haha...one of my graduate professors told me that it was rare when a person could remember back that early, but he said there have been records of other people doing it. He was fascinated that I had memories before language and said he had never encountered anyone in real life who did that. He also said I was the most divergent thinker that he had ever met and offered me a grad assistant position. My dad got sick and I didn't get to do it, but it was cool to be asked, but then again, he may have been planning to dissect my brain. I did get to go back and finish my degree but that professor had accepted a job in Louisiana by that time. I remember almost everything in vivid details, even things that I would like to forget.

I don't know if it's Ni but that's an amazing story - mostly because of the detail with which you remember it. How do you know you were 15 - 17 months old? I recall my grandfather once sitting in a rocking chair and he died when I was 3 so I could have been 2 or 3 but that's as far as I go back.

Good question. My sister was one of those unexpected babies, meaning my mother got pregnant within a few months after my birth. I am approximately 15 months older than my sister and she was a very new baby, so I estimate my age to be between 15-17 months. Incidentally, my sister was born with a rare spinal condition akin to spina-bifida which doctors attributed to her being conceived before my mother's body had fully recovered from my birth.

Then when I'm verbalizing things, it is sometimes in a halting sort of way

. I do that, too...quite often and I actually sometimes say, "I don't know how to put it into words."

There is a point or a few points in my head that I have a strong need to communicate but they're vague. Sometimes I'm successful in communicating them and sometimes I'm not because the words just don't come to shape these vague impressions into a thing that is meaningful that another person can understand.

Yes, absolutely.

Those who don't know me well tend jump in at the pauses and I can lose the train of thought.

I hate it when people do that.

It can be frustrating because it seems like the thoughts fly out of my head never to return. That's probably not accurate but it feels like it at the time.

I know what you mean. It does seem like that even if the thought return they won't carry the same "umph" [can't think of a better word to describe it...but it's umph.]

 

[highlander]

He also said I was the most divergent thinker that he had ever met and offered me a grad assistant position. My dad got sick and I didn't get to do it, but it was cool to be asked, but then again, he may have been planning to dissect my brain. I did get to go back and finish my degree but that professor had accepted a job in Louisiana by that time. I remember almost everything in vivid details, even things that I would like to forget.

Sorry you weren't able to take advantage of an opportunity like that.

I found your comment on divergent thinking interesting. It got me wondering what exactly "divergent" thinking is. So, I looked it up.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/turning-straw-gold/201302/what-type-thinker-are-you

I'm not actually sure that divergent is a good way to describe Ni. That's more like Ne in terms of coming up with different options. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this is a key way of characterizing one vs. the other. Ne diverges. Ni converges. The Ni-dom will come at things from a completely different perspective - turning a problem on it's head so to speak. Maybe that would appear divergent to someone else who has a different point of view. The Ni dom will say, "I think X" but not know how they got there vs. saying, "We could do X or we could do Y or we could do Z or we could do D."

. I do that, too...quite often and I actually sometimes say, "I don't know how to put it into words."

I'll say, "I'm not sure if I can describe this but ....... ". Then I'll go on to attempt it. I might say something like, "Looking at all these different things (go on to describe them), something just feels off to me. I guess it is (rambling attempt to describe)." Then I'll ask questions - I'll engage in a dialogue on something and through that dialogue this thing that is bothering me comes up in the conversation. Sometimes, I actually use the other person to help me shape things into words. That technique seems to work especially well with INTPs and Si doms. Then when they say what was in my head, I'll be like yes - that's exactly it or what my concern is or whatever.

I know what you mean. It does seem like that even if the thought return they won't carry the same "umph" [can't think of a better word to describe it...but it's umph.]

I'm curious - do you know what your enneagram instinctual subtype is? I have wondered if the "umph" thing has something to do with being Sx.

 

[Ene]

Sorry you weren't able to take advantage of an opportunity like that.

Thanks, me, too, but I don't regret spending time with my dad.

I found your comment on divergent thinking interesting. It got me wondering what exactly "divergent" thinking is. So, I looked it up.

Thanks. I have wondered if he called me that because he couldn't quite figure exactly how my mind worked. He only knew that it worked differently than anyone else he knew, so he labeled it divergence. I mean, after all, he wasn't a professor psychology. He was a professor of pedagogy.

I'm not actually sure that divergent is a good way to describe Ni

Good point.

The Ni-dom will come at things from a completely different perspective - turning a problem on it's head so to speak

. Well, that's what I did and he called it divergent.

Maybe that would appear divergent to someone else who has a different point of view.

Ha, well, I should have waited!

Then I'll ask questions - I'll engage in a dialogue on something and through that dialogue this thing that is bothering me comes up in the conversation. Sometimes, I actually use the other person to help me shape things into words. That technique seems to work especially well with INTPs and Si doms. Then when they say what was in my head, I'll be like yes - that's exactly it or what my concern is or whatever

.

That is a very good technique.

I'm curious - do you know what your enneagram instinctual subtype is? I have wondered if the "umph" thing has something to do with being Sx.

Actually, I'm still working on it. I have been watching videos, reading articles, taking tests, etc. and I'm having a very difficult time with it, despite all the great help that people here have offered me. I'm an amateur, that's what I am!

 

[Society]

i tend to think visually and i'm like 80% sure that i'm not an Ni user to any meaningful extent... i doubt this is related.

i will say that this:

I think in fogs that are neither images nor words, fogs of weighed information that is more sensed than directly looked at.

is something i don't relate too much myself, but i've heard before from my INTJ friend growing up, my INTJ father, my INFJ exwife... it might actually be an IxNJs thing.

 

[baccheion]

I don't think visually, I don't gain much from graphs or charts, but I don't think I use words. When I'm trying to think I usually just quiet my mind, then wait for it to sort everything out and come up with an answer. I also sometimes sound things out (talk or whisper to myself) when my mind stalls out. I absolutely hate it when that happens, and I wish there was a way to avoid it. Something has been trying to change me to a visual thinker (makes me visualize something when I start trying to think), and it seems inferior to what I did before. It's not only slower and more limited, but it gets in the way of what I'm doing. I'm guessing it's because I'm an Ne user and like working through all possibilities to arrive at the elegant conclusion. Visualizations, especially if you ever study math, you'll find are greatly limited, and it's better to be able to think abstractly. Though I do admit, it's kinda cool to be able to visualize something and see it and rotate it and adjust it in real-time (like Tesla and Einstein claimed to do), I just don't like doing it when real thinking has to happen.

 

[Shudder]

I definitely think more with images.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I'm no INTJ, but it's all images in this noggin.

 

[Asterism]

I think in fogs that are neither images nor words, fogs of weighed information that is more sensed than directly looked at.

If I had to choose, however, I would say I am a little closer to thinking in words than to the kind of the visual thinking associated with autism, which is basically a personal, endless, dynamic series of clear images, a self-produced movie in one's head. I have trouble conjuring up a single clear image of anything; it is always rather the impression of an image than an actual image.

For me, it's a combination of both of these, depending on my strength of focus. I didn't know the latter was associated with autism, though.

 

[Scheherezade]

mostly images, as i associate them better with ideas, i don`t think i`d remember words as well as i remember a "collage" of images that lead to a main idea..
hmm.. thinking in words..