The Walking Dead- CONTAINS SPOILERS!

[Totenkindly]

Well, one difference I can think of is that

Rick doesn't keep the heads of his zombified enemies alive in glass tanks, make people participate in the WWE for zombies, or keep a little girl zombie pet in a cage so he can brush her hair until her scalp falls off.

Perhaps those differences are meaningless but I like to think they aren't.

Lol. Good point... although

the girl zombie is his daughter. At that point, he's just a man who can't let go of his attachments, rather than just sadistically just imprisoning a random zombie. Herschel kind of had the same problem, and he's a decent man (I think).

I mean, I do agree intuitively that I think they are different, but their circles have begun to intersect to some degree even if they might never superimpose. Rick is not the same idealist Rick we saw through some of Season 2, I think things started to really change for him when that barn door was opened in mid-season.

Both men do act in utilitarian fashion and have the tribal loyalty, but along with when you have said here:

My opinion is that with Rick we are seeing what happens to a person with a decently functioning moral compass when he's subjected to extreme terror and grief over an extended period of time. With the Governor we're seeing what happens to someone who is only a good citizen because of legal/civil boundaries, not moral ones, when those legal/civil boundaries fall away (worse if he then gets a chance to set the next set of legal/civil boundaries himself).

I would also say that

while Rick did do some crappy things, such as almost executing the two inmates without proof they had opened the prison doors to let in the zombies, and far worse is when he jammed his fist into Moshanne's wound as part of interrogating her, he quickly relented when he realized things had gotten out of control and they wouldn't work. On a pragmatic level, he was "shifting strategies" just as the Governor did, but I feel that underneath Rick doesn't like being who he has become at times, he just feels he has no choice and would rather let himself become horrible to keep his people safe, if that is the cost.

Meanwhile, while some of the Governor's behavior overlaps, it's like you said where they are both approaching each other from different sides of things. The Governor also shifted gears when interrogating Maggie, for example, to get what he wanted from her and Glenn. But he didn't stop himself, like Rick did, and find a more respectful way to negotiate; he just did what he wanted to get the information from them. True, he could have murdered/killed them after and didn't, but what he did as the "good cop" I found pretty despicable... and I don't really think he "hates who he has become" like Rick does at this point. He never crosses the line because he's already on the other side.

I expect in the mid-season finale to see Andrea having to make a choice, which will end up further defining her character for good or bad.

I think she hasn't seen that the Governor is a 'slimeball' because he has aspects that she naturally resonates with. It's easy to see someone is a slimeball when their aspects don't mesh as naturally with yours. That's why I think, if she finds out what happened to Glenn, then her character is on the line -- at that point, she'll show her own character without any confusion. (AKA, is she loyal to her friends and willing to give up her own wants to help them, or will she sell out for what she personally wants, with someone who is morally dubious at best?)

I also wonder what's going to happen between Merle and Darryl. Merle hasn't changed; Darryl has deepened; this could be quite the mess.

 

[Ivy]

Good points about Rick vs. The Governator. I strongly agree with your assessment that

when Rick is cruel it's under duress and followed by regrets most of the time, but when TG is cruel it's as if he's using a previously-unseen side of himself, something he has always wished (though maybe not consciously) that he could let out but couldn't due to societal constraints.

I'm interested in seeing what happens with Merle and Darryl too. I think Merle does what he does at this point in large part because he too is terrified of the Governator. And that's saying a lot, for Merle to be afraid of someone.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Looks like we're alone in the Duck Lips Anti-Fanclub. I don't get her appeal at all. She consistently cozies up to the slimeball of the week and somehow fails to see that he's a slimeball. She has some badass qualities, that I won't deny, but personality-wise? Can't stand her.

Count me in. She has skills and toughness, but also has amazingly poor judgment and defends it vigorously. That's really off-putting.

 

[Totenkindly]

Did anyone read the comic? Does anyone know how the characterizations match the comic? Just curious...

(I know obviously there have been a few major departures in terms of life/death in the character continuity so far...)

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Did anyone read the comic? Does anyone know how the characterizations match the comic? Just curious...

(I know obviously there have been a few major departures in terms of life/death in the character continuity so far...)

I haven't read the comic, but I know that Shane and Darryl don't appear at all in the comic. That was surprising to me because they're such major characters.

 

[Totenkindly]

I haven't read the comic, but I know that Shane and Darryl don't appear at all in the comic. That was surprising to me because they're such major characters.

Well, Shane is at least mentioned, but he dies very early apparently... maybe even off the page. Not sure. Darryl definitely doesn't appear, nor does Merle.

I read a little bit of the comic synopsis this afternoon and was surprised at HOW different it was -- some characters are around longer, some not, some are missing altogether, some of the relationships are different, sometimes personality will be somewhat different. I only felt comfortable reading the page at all because it isn't necessarily giving anything away in the show.

 

[KDude]

You all should play the Walking Dead game (it's available for pretty much all platforms). It's not a mindless shooter or anything. It's an adventure title, and the storyline is dynamically generated based on your choices and relationships. It won many game of the year awards last year.

 

[Totenkindly]

You all should play the Walking Dead game (it's available for pretty much all platforms). It's not a mindless shooter or anything. It's an adventure title, and the storyline is dynamically generated based on your choices and relationships. It won many game of the year awards last year.

So this isn't the one on FaceBook, but a different stand-alone version?

 

[KDude]

So this isn't the one on FaceBook, but a different stand-alone version?

Yeah, it's standalone (probably available on Steam.. I played it on the Xbox). It's 5 different "episodes", so you can pay in increments. It's centered on an entirely different group (although Glenn is a minor character).

 

[PuddleRiver]

[MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION]. Yeah, she needs some serious 'taking care of' and she likes being tended to by the 'head dog'. Iow, I can't stand her either. To add to what you said about Rick; I don't think he pretends to be anything other than who he is. He's all 'over the place' sometimes, yes, but he's dealin' and he's had a lot to deal with. He's sorting himself out.

 

[Totenkindly]

Meh. Just finished watching the half-season finale (the last episode released), and I wasn't that thrilled with it. Probably the worst episode I've seen in awhile. What a shame. Michonne of course managed to stir things up a bit, though.

RIP Penny.

Oh, and the Governor is officially a dick at this point.

EDIT: Great line in one of the AV Club reviews:

...[Third Season] episodes have done a great job at selling just how lethal and driven the winter made our heroes. The Governor’s attempts to bring peace and joy to Woodbury are built on a foundation of lies and murder, but it’s also a dream that’s making his soldiers soft. As dangerous as it gets for Rick and the others, they manage to pull off a major assault and achieve their central goal with only XXXXXXX (so far). That’s the tradeoff for recognizing the world for what it really is: not many ice cream socials, but you know how to get the job done.

I was thinking the same thing, especially in the last episode or two when the Governor cannot believe that a small group without major artillery cleared the penitentiary. Yes, our heroes have a higher-percentage body count than those who attempt Mt. Everest, it seems, but the survivors are pretty damned good at surviving. Glenn himself is a great case for it.... he was timid and skittish and a runner in that second episode of the series, and now he is a killing machine who can improvise on the fly. And you can see Maggie hardening up too. Carl doesn't even flinch. I remember them running scared in the wild, originally, chased by walkers; now they just casually walk around through the walkers and just kill them when they come near, without much urgency. Because they are no longer intimidated.

... and for you Duck Lip haters, you'll cheer with the last section of that review:

Stray observations:

Weird how Tyreese gets introduced the same episode Oscar gets shot.

Speaking of Oscar getting shot, fun seeing Shane again, if only for a few seconds. I guess getting a phone call from the dead doesn't make you completely sane after all.

Possibly Loony Theory: Maybe the Governor didn't turn on Merle; maybe this is part of the scheme they were talking about earlier in the hour when the Governor wanted to use Daryl as a mole against the other prison people. If the Governor can find a way to first make it look like he wants Merle dead, and then find a way to let Merle escape... who knows?

I don’t usually watch these as they air, so I’ve missed the ads for the most part, but man alive was that Talking Dead promo badly timed. Calm down, AMC. Give us, like, 10 seconds to enjoy your damn show.

The Governor says he used the fish tanks full of heads to prepare him for the outside world. Oooookay.

Andrea may finally realize she’s in over her head. But then again, she is Andrea....

 

[Ivy]

LOL@ the Talking Dead promo timing. My favorite ever bad cut scene timing on TWD:

(I'm assuming I don't need to warn anyone that there are very gory images in that video... but just in case, DO NOT WATCH unless you can stomach this show.)

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Oh, and the Governor is officially a dick at this point.

Now?? Your threshold for dickishness is very high

 

[Totenkindly]

Now?? Your threshold for dickishness is very high

It just took me time to settle on the right word. I had many choices.

... seriously, I think the show didn't know how it wanted to portray him. He's more a dick than scary, to me, at this point. I think they muddled the presentation. IN the half-season finale, he should be terrifying, but I didn't feel much at all except thinking he was a paranoid ahole.

 

[Ivy]

OMG OMG OMG WALKING DEAD TONIGHT OMG OMG OMG

I have never needed the diversion of television like I need it right now. And television is there for me.

 

[Tigerlily]

Whoop whoop! Finally!

 

[Totenkindly]

Bummer. I don't have TV.
But I'll be able to watch it tomorrow on some random Internet site.

I really hope the thing between Darryl and Merle ain't a let-down.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, I haven't much liked the last two episodes at all. I don't even understand why the last episode was called "The Suicide King."

Unless it just refers to the Governor hiding in his house instead of engaging Woodbury.
So where exactly ARE the writers going now?

Rick is apparently going bugnuts from stress. I think the "ringing phone" episode was understandable and pretty deep, actually, but now it just seems to be a plot device to have Rick see and do crazy stuff while everyone else gapes at him. Is this going to be the time when the group regretfully deposes him and Tyresse comes in and becomes a co-leader? Because Tyresse is actually pretty cool... even-keeled, sensible, a bit thoughtful/careful, open rather than paranoid, etc.

Andrea is going to become the new de facto leader of Woodbury? Because she's stepping up -- but it all feels so stupidly contrived in a way the rest of the series hasn't. And then the typical "mob" crap -- "Oh, we're so unhappy, let's go be eaten by zombies!" and then "Oh, Andrea, thanks for the 30 second pep talk! We're all excitied to stay now!" It just hasn't felt real....just convenient.

And what's up with the Redneck Bros Circus-us-us-us? The only way I'm gonna go for this is if Daryll didn't trust Merle, so he's running interference to get him away from the group. I know Daryll loves his big bro, but even he should be realizing that big bro is a real creep, after him beating up Glenn and then all the crap he said when meeting back up with the group.

Honestly, I don't normally feel like the writers are manipulating the characters through some predetermined paces as much as I have with the last two episodes. I had a much better time watching Sherlock this weekend...

 

[Ivy]

I wondered about the title, too. I remembered from my Quaker school lunchtime poker games of yore that in a deck of cards, the "suicide king" is the king of hearts who is stabbing himself in the head (this one kid who liked to seem cool would always call "one-eyed jacks and suicide kings" wild). I'm trying to figure out how that connects to the episode, though. I suspect it has to do with Rick somehow. I'm poking around for more now.

 

[Tigerlily]

For me, last night wasn't great, but I think next week will be much better. Looks like they're following the comics right now, so things should be getting very crazy soon!