Oh Dear~Aphrodite Questions Christianity, Specifically the Resurrection, Etc.

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

That's how we felt at the big church where we were married. I didn't feel like the rest of the people there were like us in any way besides where we spent (some of) our Sunday mornings. It wasn't toxic or anything, just stiff. But we've loved being part of the congregation we're a part of now. We don't connect with every single person, but everyone is kind and it's not at all stiff. And we have made some actual friends there. I definitely feel like the leadership and congregation would be there for us if we needed them- I have never felt that from a church family before. The church I grew up going to was pretty toxic- they ended up drumming my parents out for a variety of stupid reasons that all basically came down to bullying. So I've always been a little church-skittish. Being a part of a real congregation has been pretty healing.

Yeah, I think a religious family of some sort is ideal.

For me, there is a huge chasm between that and my current reality, however; especially now that I don't 'fit' in any easily identifiable religion. I would need some sort of bridge to connect me with that group, and I don't see that materializing any time soon. And I'm not sure I want it anyway.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Learning About Bahá’u’lláh, The Prophet of the Bahai Faith

So, I'm continuing my quest to have a working knowledge of, and contemplation of the works of, the main prophets and messiahs of God.

I am working my way backwards from present time and am looking into Baha' u 'llah, an Iranian man who lived from 1817 to 1892, who became the founder of the Bahai Faith. He was imprisoned much of his life because of perceived threat to Islam. Here is a video describing the Bahai Faith: http://bahaivideo.org/National/peace.htm



Thoughts?

 

[sprinkles]

So, I'm continuing my quest to have a working knowledge of, and contemplation of the works of, the main prophets and messiahs of God.

I am working my way backwards from present time and am looking into Baha' u 'llah, an Iranian man who lived from 1817 to 1892, who became the founder of the Bahai Faith. He was imprisoned much of his life because of perceived threat to Islam. Here is a video describing the Bahai Faith: http://bahaivideo.org/National/peace.htm



Thoughts?

It's interesting, and if there is a god I'd think that the concept of prophets being updated for evolving times would make sense, rather than having just a few and they mysteriously and authoritatively stop at one point just suddenly.

It's almost like people think that any further prophets must be frauds, but based on that, what exactly made the old prophets not frauds?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

The Benefits and Risks of Prophets~

It's interesting, and if there is a god I'd think that the concept of prophets being updated for evolving times would make sense, rather than having just a few and they mysteriously and authoritatively stop at one point just suddenly.

It's almost like people think that any further prophets must be frauds, but based on that, what exactly made the old prophets not frauds?

Yes. I do not get the whole ethnocentric idea of in this ONE time and place (or 2000 years ago, whatever), this ONE prophet came and if you don't believe in him (any of them religions are built around), you will go to hell and not be enlightened.

The world is billions of years old. Why only would this happen so recently?

And the Bahai faith is cool because it connects a lot of dots, bringing people together with a common denominator, promoting world peace. But the problem I'm seeing with it is that they almost worship Baha u llah just as Christians worship Jesus. I have just recently read that Baha u llah did not see himself as a deity, but that God moved and spoke through him, that he was a messenger, and the promised one who would come at the end times to deliver God's message.

However, the Bahai Faith builds shrines and seems to worship him in various ways. They also have a great mission, but I guess man cannot help but put their prophet on a pedestal. God is more remote, seemingly, so men do not identify with him as easily, I guess. Men identify with those they can see and feel and read and feel like they know.

Such is the downfall of religion>men. Keeping the focus on God is asking too much. And if we don't use prophets, we might lack the bridge and lingo to communicate daily with God, which is so imperative to living an ideal life, and having an ideal society. But with prophets, we cannot help but worship them, as a God. Such is our quandary as humans connecting with the Divine.

 

[sprinkles]

Yes. I do not get the whole ethnocentric idea of in this ONE time and place (or 2000 years ago, whatever), this ONE prophet came and if you don't believe in him (any of them religions are built around), you will go to hell and not be enlightened.

The world is billions of years old. Why only would this happen so recently?

And the Bahai faith is cool because it connects a lot of dots, bringing people together with a common denominator, promoting world peace. But the problem I'm seeing with it is that they almost worship Baha u llah just as Christians worship Jesus. I have just recently read that Baha u llah did not see himself as a deity, but that God moved and spoke through him, that he was a messenger, and the promised one who would come at the end times to deliver God's message.

However, the Bahai Faith builds shrines and seems to worship him in various ways. They also have a great mission, but I guess man cannot help but put their prophet on a pedestal. God is more remote, seemingly, so men do not identify with him as easily, I guess. Men identify with those they can see and feel and read and feel like they know.

Such is the downfall of religion>men. Keeping the focus on God is asking too much. And if we don't use prophets, we might lack the bridge and lingo to communicate daily with God, which is so imperative to living an ideal life, and having an ideal society. But with prophets, we cannot help but worship them, as a God. Such is our quandary as humans connecting with the Divine.

Yeah, that sort of thing happens. Some people worship Buddha and I don't think Buddha EVER intended for that to happen. Not like that.

 

[Mole]

I have a pretty complicated relationship with Christianity, but I do love me some Jesus. I don't know if that stuff is literally true or not. Since that time there have been translations, additions, subtractions. But I don't really feel like I need to know. To me, being focused on the literal details of whether something happened exactly as it is written in the bible misses the point. I connect with those stories whether they happened or not, whether the red words in the bible were actually spoken by Jesus as written. The underlying truths have meaning that literal events could never have. I realize this is an unorthodox approach to Christianity, but I've been fortunate enough to find a couple of religious traditions where doubt and unorthodox approaches are welcomed. (Those traditions are Quakerism and the Episcopal church, the American wing of the Anglican communion.)

Finding a specific congregation where doubt is welcome and you're not shamed for voicing unorthodox ideas has been a Godsend (so to speak). Neither my husband nor I connected with the first Episcopal church we started going to, the one where we were married. It was very corporate- the priest who married us was warm and we connected with her, but the priest who baptised us kept introducing himself to us when we would stay for coffee hour- this happened about 4 or 5 times, and I kept saying "yes, Steve, I know you- you baptised us, remember?" but he never remembered us.) Then about ten years ago, the three churches in my county spawned a mission church and we were among the founding members. The vicar is an Episcopal priest with a Quaker background, and I finally know what it's like to have a trusted clergy member who I can lean on in times of need and who helps me find ways to use my talents to further the church's mission. We have connected there despite our doubts and unusual ideas.

Jesus never said a word against institutional slavery, yet he was surrounded by it. Institutional slavery is one of the world's greatest evils.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It is Christian to judge. Yet God does not want us to judge.~

So, I was chillin and feelin God's Love in me the other morning and thoughts were coming to me from, I believe, The Holy Spirit or God, and it was ultra clear in that moment that judgment of all kinds is wrong.

I have always grappled with judgment. I've never liked to judge nor condemn others, preferring to spend my time asking, "Why?" rather than, "You shouldn't." So in bible study in the Fall, I finally tracked down the answer to when one is allowed by God, according to the Bible, to judge or rebuke. That is when the person is another believer. The Bible says not to rebuke or judge when the person is not a believer, because you are just wasting your time. Interestingly as well, the Bible says not to fraternize with believers who are swindlers, thieves, idolaters, etc., but you can fraternize with non-believers who are, evidently? So, it's like once we call ourselves a Christian, we collectively become degraded somewhat, because we become judgers of our fellow brother. Yet we are admonished to not ever say one ill word of fellow believers, except evidently for rebuking them. Along these lines, once a native of somewhere hears of Christ, Christians surmise that if they then do not accept Jesus as the savior, they will then go to hell.


In bible study when I'd question my fellow bible study girlfriends, they were all over judging each other to keep us on the straight and narrow; indeed, it's a well-known and espoused Christian policy that you will be reigned in by your fellow Christian brethren, and that that is a benefit to being a Christian.

I think this is where Christians become the self-righteous hypocrites that they are.


I know from grappling with it myself for even just a few months, that judging my fellow sisters/brothers took me further away from God's love, though it tied me closer to the Christian faith, and Jesus' supposed words. Having now abandoned judgment and rebuking I've already felt freer in my love for others and for myself as well~! I KNOW that God does not want us to rebuke each other or to judge each other.

So the Bible is wrong on this point.

Was Jesus wrong, or was he interpreted inaccurately? Or was he used by others down the line for their own agenda? I'll never know unless God reveals it to me. I haven't actually asked yet. Maybe I will.


Anyway, yeah. I'm pretty sure judging others is never right. All we have control over is ourselves. And we need to each have a direct line to God and God only. Everything beyond that is love-lagnappe. Only God should be the judger and rebuker. [This might be different for raising our children. I'm not really sure.]

 

[tinker683]

 

[Ivy]

it was ultra clear in that moment that judgment of all kinds is wrong.

...

I think this is where Christians become the self-righteous hypocrites that they are.

...

Anyway, yeah. I'm pretty sure judging others is never right. All we have control over is ourselves. And we need to each have a direct line to God and God only. Everything beyond that is love-lagnappe. Only God should be the judger and rebuker.

Really?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Really?

Yeah.

 

[Ivy]

Yeah.

You don't see a little problem with your premises? Log/splinter in the eye and all that?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

You don't see a little problem with your premises? Log/splinter in the eye and all that?

I'm not following you. It's like I'm saying that I don't see any logs in others' eyes because I'm too busy looking at God.

 

[Ivy]

I'm not following you. It's like I'm saying that I don't see any logs in others' eyes because I'm too busy looking at God.

You are still looking for and finding logs, though. How is calling people self-righteous hypocrites not a judgment?

 

[Ivy]

I don't think it's possible to totally avoid judgment, and I think you've illustrated that nicely here and elsewhere on the forum by judging plenty yourself. Even if it were possible, I'm not sure why it would be preferable to just uncritically accept everything anyone ever does. I'm reminded of something one of my favorite people (a Buddhist, incidentally) once said: "Let's be open-minded, sure, but not so open-minded that our brains fall out."

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

You are still looking for and finding logs, though. How is calling people self-righteous hypocrites not a judgment?

Yeah, you are probably right.

Difference is that they are rationalizing that it's okay to judge--saying that God says it's ok to judge!! I'm simply asserting I don't believe God is saying that at all. Judging is so much a part of our world, that one cannot expect to do away with it quickly or easily.

And I'm not sure I agree with conditional judging. I'm still contemplating it all. But I'll probably post about it when I realize it.

Thanks for your input.